am i burning oil?
11-12-2007, 02:13 PM
#11
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On my second track day with this oil I'm using now I was expecting oil usage so I brought a liter.
It was not needed.
Maybe I burned 2X on the dipstick during +/- 45 laps @ 4.555 km/lap (200km)
Fastest handclocked time 2:14
I am using 0W-30 for 15700 km now, same oil, not changed yet.
Maybe the KrankVents stopped oil usage a bit?
Anyway.. I still don't think revs are a key factor when making decisions about oil change intervals.
Actually, getting the engine hot for some time is good, the oil can really get hot too and get rid of all the fuel dillution and absorbed moisture.
After (during) those times one has to keep an eye on the oil level as it may "suddenly" drop, its just the bad stuff dissapearing.
No problem.
Letting it idle to operating temp, to get into a warm car, is much much worse.
IMO the F20 & F22 were designed with 30 weights at operating temp in mind.
Depending on the outside temps you start the car in and the type / brand of oil, I think anything between a 10W-30 and a 0W-30 is good oil for the S2000.
(In the Sahara a 10W-30 would do fine)
Don't use "10W-60 racing oils", they're crap, shear down fast and are way to expensive and too thick for the F20/F22.
Why Honda recommends a 5W-40 for colder temps is probably because of the quality (at the time of writing the manual) of 5W-30 oils, but they have closed the gap and are as good when it comes to shearing (as in: they don't shear) as 5W-40's would.
I would not use a xxW-40 again, not thin enough.
My F20C2 likes 10cSt
(9.6 to be accurate)
RACER Posted on Nov 12 2007, 11:17 PM
Define: high speed.
140 km/h?
160 km/h?
With the full syn (group IV & V) 0W-30 oil I'm using now: yes.
Maybe I would change it after 10k km... ok.
Highway miles are easy miles
RACER Posted on Nov 13 2007, 12:10 AM
First define "synthetic"
Most oils sold in the US, what you think are synthetic oils, are in fact group III (dino) oils, okay, maybe not as they are pumped out of the ground, but the basis is dino.
Oil companies blend all kinds of oils together to get what they are looking for, dino and true syn oil.
If they do, so can you
Switch back & forth all you like, but, to minimize additive clash (as far as it may happen at all) a full drain first is best.
No oil is far worse then a mixture though, so add whatever is available if you have to (and did not bring your own oil).
marlonRocks Posted on Nov 12 2007, 11:52 PM
Fixing?
I would first record how much oil the engine uses per 1000 mile.
All that takes is some time (to drive
) and a piece of paper, pretty cheap.
"If it aint broke, don't fix it"
You could search online for oils with less volatity (lower NOACK numbers) then what you are using now.
Oil evaporating is oil lost, not burned.
It was not needed.
Maybe I burned 2X on the dipstick during +/- 45 laps @ 4.555 km/lap (200km)
Fastest handclocked time 2:14
I am using 0W-30 for 15700 km now, same oil, not changed yet.
Maybe the KrankVents stopped oil usage a bit?
Anyway.. I still don't think revs are a key factor when making decisions about oil change intervals.
Actually, getting the engine hot for some time is good, the oil can really get hot too and get rid of all the fuel dillution and absorbed moisture.
After (during) those times one has to keep an eye on the oil level as it may "suddenly" drop, its just the bad stuff dissapearing.
No problem.
Letting it idle to operating temp, to get into a warm car, is much much worse.
IMO the F20 & F22 were designed with 30 weights at operating temp in mind.
Depending on the outside temps you start the car in and the type / brand of oil, I think anything between a 10W-30 and a 0W-30 is good oil for the S2000.
(In the Sahara a 10W-30 would do fine)
Don't use "10W-60 racing oils", they're crap, shear down fast and are way to expensive and too thick for the F20/F22.
Why Honda recommends a 5W-40 for colder temps is probably because of the quality (at the time of writing the manual) of 5W-30 oils, but they have closed the gap and are as good when it comes to shearing (as in: they don't shear) as 5W-40's would.
I would not use a xxW-40 again, not thin enough.
My F20C2 likes 10cSt
(9.6 to be accurate)
RACER Posted on Nov 12 2007, 11:17 PM
Would you utilize an oil change interval of 5-6k miles (8-10k kilometers) if you drove continuously at high speed on the autobaughn, say 20-25 minutes at a time, say 3-4 days a week, and maybe 5-6 hard track days, and throw in a little bit of stop and go driving negotiating rush hour traffic?
I don't think so.
I don't think so.
140 km/h?
160 km/h?
With the full syn (group IV & V) 0W-30 oil I'm using now: yes.
Maybe I would change it after 10k km... ok.
Highway miles are easy miles
RACER Posted on Nov 13 2007, 12:10 AM
Someone please chime in on the stipulations of switching in between synthetic and conventional. A few peeps at an auto parts store told me that you cannot switch to back to conventional oil after using synthetic
Most oils sold in the US, what you think are synthetic oils, are in fact group III (dino) oils, okay, maybe not as they are pumped out of the ground, but the basis is dino.
Oil companies blend all kinds of oils together to get what they are looking for, dino and true syn oil.
If they do, so can you
Switch back & forth all you like, but, to minimize additive clash (as far as it may happen at all) a full drain first is best.
No oil is far worse then a mixture though, so add whatever is available if you have to (and did not bring your own oil).
marlonRocks Posted on Nov 12 2007, 11:52 PM
...so the most cost effective way of fixing this is to .....
I would first record how much oil the engine uses per 1000 mile.
All that takes is some time (to drive
) and a piece of paper, pretty cheap."If it aint broke, don't fix it"
You could search online for oils with less volatity (lower NOACK numbers) then what you are using now.
Oil evaporating is oil lost, not burned.
11-12-2007, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by headon,Nov 12 2007, 09:16 AM
With the AP1 model , the pcv valve sticks into the valve cover vertically. The inserted tip of the valve is less than 1/2 inch from a steel baffle plate. This plate tends to pool oil on the pcv side of the valve cover when you car is in right hand sweeper. Depending on the aggressiveness of the turn, it is at this orientation that allows the valve to siphon oil directly into the intake. I've seen the smoking at the track.
Honda redesigned the valve cover and pcv for the AP2 models. The AP2 pcv valve screws horizontally into the valve cover; positioning the tip 90 degrees away from the baffle plate thus increasing the distance from where the oil would usually pool. This fact plus a re-metering of the new valve reduces the chance of oil sucking into the intake resulting in reduced oil consumption and fuel contamination. Not too many AP2 owners complain of oil usage.
Thoughts, suggestions, ridicule?
Honda redesigned the valve cover and pcv for the AP2 models. The AP2 pcv valve screws horizontally into the valve cover; positioning the tip 90 degrees away from the baffle plate thus increasing the distance from where the oil would usually pool. This fact plus a re-metering of the new valve reduces the chance of oil sucking into the intake resulting in reduced oil consumption and fuel contamination. Not too many AP2 owners complain of oil usage.
Thoughts, suggestions, ridicule?
11-12-2007, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SpitfireS,Nov 12 2007, 03:13 PM
Switch back & forth all you like, but, to minimize additive clash (as far as it may happen at all) a full drain first is best.
Do you know of any documentation that proves that you can switch back and forth so I can show these buffoons?
11-13-2007, 09:33 AM
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RACER Posted on Nov 13 2007, 02:41 AM
No, sorry.
I've been reading a lot on BITOG about this, and that question gets asked every now and then.
Alway's the same answer.
You could print out those questions & answers?
In older engines, sludged up and coated with varnich from years and years of dino oil, it may be that syn oil removes all the goo and leaves you with leaking seals and an oil burning engine.
Some "high milage" oil have seal conditioners to stop old seals from becomming brittle.
All this does not apply to the S2000 IMO.
Currently at 141837 km.
Oil changed at 126012 km.
Current km. on oil = 15825 km.
12 liters of 0W-30 bought a year ago.
5 used to do the change.
12-5=7 left at the beginning.
Currently 2 and 1/2 bottle left, 1/2 bottle in the car , 3 left in total.
7-3=4 liters used in 15825 km.
15825/4=3956 km / liter of oil.
That's pretty ok I guess.
Do you know of any documentation that proves that you can switch back and forth so I can show these buffoons?
I've been reading a lot on BITOG about this, and that question gets asked every now and then.
Alway's the same answer.
You could print out those questions & answers?
In older engines, sludged up and coated with varnich from years and years of dino oil, it may be that syn oil removes all the goo and leaves you with leaking seals and an oil burning engine.
Some "high milage" oil have seal conditioners to stop old seals from becomming brittle.
All this does not apply to the S2000 IMO.
Currently at 141837 km.
Oil changed at 126012 km.
Current km. on oil = 15825 km.
12 liters of 0W-30 bought a year ago.
5 used to do the change.
12-5=7 left at the beginning.
Currently 2 and 1/2 bottle left, 1/2 bottle in the car
, 3 left in total.7-3=4 liters used in 15825 km.
15825/4=3956 km / liter of oil.
That's pretty ok I guess.
11-13-2007, 09:55 AM
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I have the same situation. I own a MY'02 with 83,000 Miles on the odo. I have installed a catch can in-line with a new PCV. I use Mobil 1 10w-30 in my ride and I change the oil every 3000 miles.
Every time I change it, it is usually about a quart low. No idea where it is going
My catch can has about a teaspoon worth of oil in it, my exhaust does not look overly dirty. The back bumper is clean. I park on a spotless floor and I have never seen a single drop of anything there.(well I did see a little coolant once when I did the TB bypass mod)
I just figure it is normal for this car to consume a quart every 3k or so
Every time I change it, it is usually about a quart low. No idea where it is going
My catch can has about a teaspoon worth of oil in it, my exhaust does not look overly dirty. The back bumper is clean. I park on a spotless floor and I have never seen a single drop of anything there.(well I did see a little coolant once when I did the TB bypass mod)
I just figure it is normal for this car to consume a quart every 3k or so
11-13-2007, 04:27 PM
#19
I heard Mobil 1 tends to burn oil easier??
I don't know what oil the previous owner ran but when I got the car, it was a bit low on the dipstick level. I changed the oil a week later and used Castrol Syntec 10W30. In about 3500 miles in 6.5 months, I burned about a quart. I did my next oil change, and this time, I've only burned roughly 1/4th of a quart in 1500 miles. Driving habits unchanged.
I don't know what oil the previous owner ran but when I got the car, it was a bit low on the dipstick level. I changed the oil a week later and used Castrol Syntec 10W30. In about 3500 miles in 6.5 months, I burned about a quart. I did my next oil change, and this time, I've only burned roughly 1/4th of a quart in 1500 miles. Driving habits unchanged.