Airbox Modification Discussion
06-27-2001, 04:56 AM
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Airbox Modification Discussion
Greg S.'s Tokyo trip report said:
I'd likes some discussion to elaborate on this.
What types of do-it-yourself airbox mods have proven to be beneficial?
What cold air intakes provide the best airflow with the least metal cutting?
The Mugen guys DID say that the best way to increase performance of the S2000 is to change the airbox. They felt that this was where the greatest gains are found and said over and over again how important it is to have a CAI, and they didn't even suggest theirs per se. They even suggested making modifications on one's own to improve airflow.
What types of do-it-yourself airbox mods have proven to be beneficial?
What cold air intakes provide the best airflow with the least metal cutting?
06-27-2001, 05:21 AM
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I personally like the Spoon extension induction pipe for the stock airbox ... In fact, how much is that actually ... Mingster? I'm damn tempted to add that onto my modification listing.
06-27-2001, 05:34 AM
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I personally don't care for the way Honda chose to bring in the high pressure are from in front of the rad to the airbox- a good idea, but I think the cross-section of the airflow path is rather small. The cold air tub is ideal (I wouldn't change that) but it would be nice to open it up a little more by the rad. Unfortunately, there's not much room to do so (has anyone done it from the bottom?).
06-27-2001, 11:53 PM
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I'm with you on this one PFB. It seems like the airbox is the best way to improve performance without major expense - it should also be reversible if you feel like it too.
I am a relative neophyte in this area and have stuffed up a lot of motorcycles by opening up the airbox only to have the engines die at high revs from incorrect fuel mixture. My best results have been with my current Suzuki Bandit where I have increased main jet sizes by 25% to compensate for majory surgery on the airbox and a much freer flowing pipe.
Does anyone know whether the ECU on the S2k is able to automatically compensate for increased air volume or are there other changes required to injectors etc.?
I'm very interested to hear of sustainable arguments for modifications in this area.
I am a relative neophyte in this area and have stuffed up a lot of motorcycles by opening up the airbox only to have the engines die at high revs from incorrect fuel mixture. My best results have been with my current Suzuki Bandit where I have increased main jet sizes by 25% to compensate for majory surgery on the airbox and a much freer flowing pipe.
Does anyone know whether the ECU on the S2k is able to automatically compensate for increased air volume or are there other changes required to injectors etc.?
I'm very interested to hear of sustainable arguments for modifications in this area.
06-28-2001, 05:10 AM
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The stock ECU should have the capacity to compensate for even low levels of boost - like ~ .5 psi
I suppose the only question would be at WOT because it goes to a fixed map, but even that is rich.
I suppose the only question would be at WOT because it goes to a fixed map, but even that is rich.
06-28-2001, 05:49 AM
#6
It was my understanding that the biggest concern was making sure that the coolest air available is used since this ECU is quick to protect the engine as soon as it senses elevated intake air or coolant. I did not pickup on any suggestion that airflow is inadequate.
The configuration of the front end components (hood, radiator, braces, etc.) just don
The configuration of the front end components (hood, radiator, braces, etc.) just don
06-28-2001, 07:13 AM
#7
[QUOTE]Originally posted by cdelena
[B]It was my understanding that the biggest concern was making sure that the coolest air available is used since this ECU is quick to protect the engine as soon as it senses elevated intake air or coolant. I did not pickup on any suggestion that airflow is inadequate.
The configuration of the front end components (hood, radiator, braces, etc.) just don
[B]It was my understanding that the biggest concern was making sure that the coolest air available is used since this ECU is quick to protect the engine as soon as it senses elevated intake air or coolant. I did not pickup on any suggestion that airflow is inadequate.
The configuration of the front end components (hood, radiator, braces, etc.) just don
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06-28-2001, 07:50 AM
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Please see this thread:
http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...?threadid=19326
We are in the process of trying to convince Kaminari to make a CF hood with a ram air scoop leading into the stock airbox as a solution to this problem. Once we get 20 orders for hoods, they'll make it.
http://www.s2000online.com/forums/showthre...?threadid=19326
We are in the process of trying to convince Kaminari to make a CF hood with a ram air scoop leading into the stock airbox as a solution to this problem. Once we get 20 orders for hoods, they'll make it.
06-28-2001, 09:14 AM
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Some folks have run tests with the OBDII computer to see what intake charge temps look like under various conditions. I've also run a thermocouple at the airbox inlet to see what happens.
On a 60-70 F day, charge temps at idle can soar to over 140 F. Once in motion, these will drop down into the 90-110 F range. These are temps measured from the IAT sensor the ECU uses. Oh, and on the dyno the IAT, even with a fan, tends to be 15-20 F hotter than while on the road. Obviously one reason why the car tends to perform better than the dyno would indicate, especially at high speed.
At the front of the airbox, with a thermocouple, we measured air temps 40-50 degrees above ambient at idle. We couldn't get a good consistent reading at speed though. Interestingly, even 2-3 inches in front of the radiator we didn't see much drop in temp (a couple of degrees) until the fans went on. Thus, the radiant heat from the radiator is a big problem unless you seal off the intake completely and have a forward facing intake which extents in front of the radiator a few inches (like Mugen or Spoon).
As for what benefit there might be in high temp environments, just remember that much of the temp gain is additive. IOW, if we see 110 F intake temps with 70 F ambient, you'll see nearly 150 F intake temps if the weather is 110 F ambient. Thus, ambient air is always preferable.
UL
On a 60-70 F day, charge temps at idle can soar to over 140 F. Once in motion, these will drop down into the 90-110 F range. These are temps measured from the IAT sensor the ECU uses. Oh, and on the dyno the IAT, even with a fan, tends to be 15-20 F hotter than while on the road. Obviously one reason why the car tends to perform better than the dyno would indicate, especially at high speed.
At the front of the airbox, with a thermocouple, we measured air temps 40-50 degrees above ambient at idle. We couldn't get a good consistent reading at speed though. Interestingly, even 2-3 inches in front of the radiator we didn't see much drop in temp (a couple of degrees) until the fans went on. Thus, the radiant heat from the radiator is a big problem unless you seal off the intake completely and have a forward facing intake which extents in front of the radiator a few inches (like Mugen or Spoon).
As for what benefit there might be in high temp environments, just remember that much of the temp gain is additive. IOW, if we see 110 F intake temps with 70 F ambient, you'll see nearly 150 F intake temps if the weather is 110 F ambient. Thus, ambient air is always preferable.
UL