Add molybdenum at first oil change?
11-02-2003, 06:22 PM
#21
1) Honda Break in oil contains molybdenum duisufide and detergents
2) Engines are normally assembled with Molybdenum Disulfide
I'll be more then happy to take a swipe at the oil hornets nest. Many high end cars due not require a break in lubricant (such as Molybdenum) as the surface fininshes on their metal to metal surfaces are superior (why due you think they cost more....it ain't just the leather seats!). Molybdenum is an interesting substance in that under temperature and pressure it will fill minute voids...such as those which result from machining and grinding. We're not talking about major voids but voids on the micron and sub-micron scales. High end cars use match lapped surfaces for superior wear. So on the first few start ups the moly, either molybdenum disulfide from assembly lube or molbdenum disulfide from oil additives fill in the voids....where there is sufficient temperature and pressure. Then it just goes along for the ride. Replacement oil is normally low in molybdenum as there is little need for it (i.e. most engines use a molydenum disulfide assembly lube). Interestingly enough Catrol 10W-30 is the highest Moly aftermarket oil (their GTX product is #1 in Moly %).
Anyways if you haven't been into the engine (i.e. Toda Cams,valves,etc.) there is no need to worry about Moly addition. If you have been inside the motor for any reason then a Moly additive might be in order.
Regards,
Utah
Formerly "Under the Hood" Forum Moderator
2) Engines are normally assembled with Molybdenum Disulfide
I'll be more then happy to take a swipe at the oil hornets nest. Many high end cars due not require a break in lubricant (such as Molybdenum) as the surface fininshes on their metal to metal surfaces are superior (why due you think they cost more....it ain't just the leather seats!). Molybdenum is an interesting substance in that under temperature and pressure it will fill minute voids...such as those which result from machining and grinding. We're not talking about major voids but voids on the micron and sub-micron scales. High end cars use match lapped surfaces for superior wear. So on the first few start ups the moly, either molybdenum disulfide from assembly lube or molbdenum disulfide from oil additives fill in the voids....where there is sufficient temperature and pressure. Then it just goes along for the ride. Replacement oil is normally low in molybdenum as there is little need for it (i.e. most engines use a molydenum disulfide assembly lube). Interestingly enough Catrol 10W-30 is the highest Moly aftermarket oil (their GTX product is #1 in Moly %).
Anyways if you haven't been into the engine (i.e. Toda Cams,valves,etc.) there is no need to worry about Moly addition. If you have been inside the motor for any reason then a Moly additive might be in order.
Regards,
Utah
Formerly "Under the Hood" Forum Moderator
, i also highly recommend castrol gtx for the reasons you've stated.
11-03-2003, 05:21 AM
#25
Registered User
Please see my comment at bottom of this thread:
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=160241
Choosing an oil based only on one component is not the best way to go. Moly is just one part of the chemical soup.
Moly is not the endall of anti-wear compounds- the major oil companies like Pennzoil have the technical and financial resources to develop new AW's (anti-wear) compounds, and are doing so. The suppliers of additives (like Lubrizol) are also constantly developing and testing new materialds. They are already in the products of Pennzoil and Valvoline - I do not know about Castrol, but I do know that they cheapened synoils in this country, and so I have a yellow flag for their products. The smaller companies will have to wait and take their cues from the majors. The fact that people who write in Forums like this do not know the names of these new compounds does not negate their effetiveness, but it does suggest that looking at one isolated compound is risky.
Similarly, some people have pointed negatively at Amsoil and Red Line at times for not havng "API certification". That is an ignorant perspective (ignorant in the strict sense of not having the knowledge). Amsoil and RL did not adhere to the SL standards, which lowered zinc and phosphorous at the behest of the car companies to protect them emissions warranty claims for catalytics. It was not dne for the benefit of us, the owners.
http://forums.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.p...threadid=160241
Choosing an oil based only on one component is not the best way to go. Moly is just one part of the chemical soup.
Moly is not the endall of anti-wear compounds- the major oil companies like Pennzoil have the technical and financial resources to develop new AW's (anti-wear) compounds, and are doing so. The suppliers of additives (like Lubrizol) are also constantly developing and testing new materialds. They are already in the products of Pennzoil and Valvoline - I do not know about Castrol, but I do know that they cheapened synoils in this country, and so I have a yellow flag for their products. The smaller companies will have to wait and take their cues from the majors. The fact that people who write in Forums like this do not know the names of these new compounds does not negate their effetiveness, but it does suggest that looking at one isolated compound is risky.
Similarly, some people have pointed negatively at Amsoil and Red Line at times for not havng "API certification". That is an ignorant perspective (ignorant in the strict sense of not having the knowledge). Amsoil and RL did not adhere to the SL standards, which lowered zinc and phosphorous at the behest of the car companies to protect them emissions warranty claims for catalytics. It was not dne for the benefit of us, the owners.
11-03-2003, 09:07 PM
#26
Too all....just be advised that if your oil is not "API Certified" your warranty claim if required will be useless. While I am a firm believer in Redline and its products, I am also aware of its risks of voiding warranty. Use any lubricants you choose but verify the product is accepted by the manuafacturewr if you envision any form of warranty claim. They can check the oil residue....and they do 
Utah
Utah
11-04-2003, 06:11 AM
#27
Registered User
In my 35 yars of car ownership, I have never had a dealer send out my oil for analysis - the API requirement is to make sure that inferior oils are not used, not superior oils. When i worked as a wrench in my teens, I never saw a car with an engine warranty claim that got 86'ed by the dealer, unless the oil level was low, or the oil looked extremely dirty. Then, we would check the service records, or ask the woner to produce service records that showed warranty compliance. That was it.
Even if they did an oil analysis. No lab will come back with a statement that "this oil is API certified" or "this oil is not". They will merely report on its condition.
Even if they did an oil analysis. No lab will come back with a statement that "this oil is API certified" or "this oil is not". They will merely report on its condition.
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