revhi

Thanks, Ive had one for about a year now and havent gotten around to installing it yet.

A lot of people have seen some gains with the VAFC, I was just wondering if anyone has tried the Emanage with the stock injectors.

Wael El-Dasher

The 550's biggest problem is their aweful spray pattern. The 440cc and 600cc have a diffuser that makes it just a better choice.

With the 550cc running 5-6psi of boost I didn't see anything above 51% duty cycle, so there is no need. With the 440cc I am around 75% duty cycle. Stock injectors I am at 85%.

Hope this helps

W

revhi

You had the Emange on at FC, are you running the stock injestors now?

Wael El-Dasher

I agree with you completely on the 600cc, my 550cc injector experience mirrors your precisely, except I am sure it was worse due to the lack of a diffuser.

The 440cc was an increadible improvement. With the e-manage however they're not great between 5%-15%, where 5% is idle (OBD II says 5% idle, e-manage says 6%...who knows)

The short term fuel trim is anywhere +/- 10%...somedays its +/-4, or times, like these days when its below 30 deg. F in the morning, it's adding 15%...

Replace them with stock injectors and immediately this problem is gone. Everywhere else they're great, still a little sluggish compared to stock, especially felt if you switch them in and out like I did a few times to feel the difference.

Undoubtly, if someone made injectors that are identical to stock but flow more, this would not be a problem. It's very odd given the market demand that no company took this problem seriously to produce properly engineered injectors for applications like ours. Venom showed promise with their slightly larger OE style injectors but they made them upto our size and stop there...maybe one day.

I consulted with Shad again and I honestly agree with him that a RRFPR is one of the cleanest way to add fuel. I think if the pressure is moderate and the management is able to increase the duty cycle when needed at WOT, it could be the best combination of retaining all stock part throttle drivability and clean emissions, while getting the additional fuel in precisely the correct atomisation.

cheers

W

ultimate lurker

It is difficult to make injectors with differing flow rates that are identical in other parameters. The biggest problem is the opening time for larger injectors which requires a non-linear scaling of the fuel map. This is why larger injectors are so problematic with piggyback systems at small throttle openings. The scaling required at higher fuel requirements, if applied across the board, sometimes results in the bigger injector barely opening, if at all.

This is why bigger injectors are best used with a system capable of altering the fuel map completely, and ideally also capable of compensating for injector open times. When you have those capabilities, you can idle a 160 hp Accord on 1000cc injectors pretty much like stock. While many, many kits get away with running super high fuel pressures (upwards of 100 psi demanded, although the pumps can't always meet that), this does result in the occasional injector lock which usually causes catastrophic engine failure, as we recently witnessed with a forced induction RSX.

UL

Wael El-Dasher

You're right UL, the scaling issue can only be solved with a standalone. Also I completely agree with the injector duration period issue with larger injectors. The 440cc would have been perfect if the Lucas pintle design was similar to the OE Keihin injectors, also the spray pattern is not effective at low duration cycles.

I believe (I could be wrong) there is a prevailing misconception that a standalone is the best solution to management, and somehow a few tuning sessions will get a perfectly tuned car. The truth is once a standalone is used, the work is just begining. It's an endless road of tuning, as few have means to really tune like the factory can. You will always tune and clean up the map and compensation tables. I think if the expectation is realistic, that is if you accept the car will never be tuned to be 100% as good as stock tuning through out the RPM range, that is you can perhaps achieve and be content with 80% or so, then you acknowledge there is a downgrade.

I my view, if I start with 100% and end up with 80% then I am obviously losing. But I am also admittedly an obsessive compulsive ( I know, you would have never guessed ). However, if that's the best that can be done, and that's the best possible setup we have on the market, then there isn't much choice for those that have the need for the additional fuel.

cheers

W