4.77 gears vs. stock 4.10 gears
02-04-2011, 09:09 PM
#22
The following post was one I contributed with regard to AP2 transmissions in an AP1 - with the combined effects of using other final drive ratios. The final drive info may be informative for those looking into changing ratios.
"The higher 6th gear of an AP2 transmission will give you about 2 more MPH at 4500 RPM compared to a stock AP1. If you're looking for a mileage breakthrough - forget it. It isn't going to improve your highway mileage more than a couple MPG at best (it'll never pay for itself).
At 4500 RPM: a stock AP1 will be at ~83.6 MPH, an AP2 transmission will bring that to just about 85.3 MPH - with stock AP1 tire size. Tire size can make a noticeable difference.
There isn't a huge performance advantage switching transmissions out without playing with the diff ratio. It's the combination that makes the difference -- actually, the AP2 trans only compliments the gains mainly produced with changing the final drive ratio.
A stock 4.1 diff. will feel ever so slightly peppier in an AP1 with an AP2 transmission;
A set of 4.30 will get you out of the hole faster in first and pulls harder in first and second - you're at 82 MPH @ 4500 RPM... essentially OEM highway cruising (AP1 w/ AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tire size), with better 1st 2nd and 3rd performance;
4.44s will get you a noticeably stronger pull through 3rd and in 4th. However, you give up a little up top to gain a lot down low (78.7 @ 4500: AP1 w/AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tires);
A 4.56/57 gearset will contribute to a generous pull all the way through 4th, but you're out of first fairly quickly. Highway cruising is a little more painful and noisy (~76.7 @ 4500 OEM AP1 tires), due to harmonic noise products with the gears. The later model gears (4.56) were much less prone to the harmonic noise issue.
When you get to 4.77 - first gear is almost worthless, and you get tired of shifting. Forget about using this car for long highway trips. However, this gearset is useable for city driving (73.3 @ 4500: AP1 w/AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tires), and is pretty good for stoplight to stoplight runs. All-in-all: 4.77s will produce a car more adept at track work than street work.
I've driven most of them - or been in cars with the ratio (4.30). The 4.44 ratio with an AP2 transmission is the best compromise for a slight performance bias in a street-driven N/A car (IMHO). 4.30s with an AP2 transmission gives you enough of an advantage over 4.10 that you may think it's worth the money - all while keeping highway efficiency. 4.30s are very good for low-boost applications. I recommend 4.44 gears for N/A use. The upside of 4.30s over 4.44s is you won't loose anything in highway mileage.
I have an AP1 with an AP2 transmission, 4.44 diff and 255/40/17 tires on the rear - and my 4500 RPM will give me just at 79.4 MPH. The tires put me somewhere in-between the 4.30 and 4.44 numbers - when compared to a fully stock car. The biggest difference is down low - a nice strong pull. City mileage is better than stock because I can get into 5th and 6th earlier - and highway mileage is only slightly less than stock - highway cruising is much nicer than my old 4.57 gears.
The car with 4.44s is not quite as quick as it was with 4.57 gears - but not even marginally enough to miss them. I had one of the early set of HTG/Richmond 4.57 gears - they were set up at Ganley for the HTG - poorly set up that is. The noise was terrible. So bad in fact I couldn't hear the bearing noise in the '04 AP2 transmission (Also bought through the HTG).
This time around I spent the extra cash and had PuddyDad (Puddy Mod Racing) build me one of his Stage 4 diffs (expensive - but worth it). The difference is significant - smoothness and as quiet as OEM. The reason my 4.44 is almost as fast as my old 4.57 is because of the quality of the build of the Puddy Mod diff. You get what you pay for (even though I paid WAY too much for the previous 4.57 setup).
For note: Stay away from used '04 transmissions. Buy '05 or later.
You have no way of knowing if you're getting a "good" transmission or not. Reputable dealers are asking anywhere from $950-$1500 for a used '05-'07 transmission. Get the VIN and discover what kind of accident the car was involved in - look at the rating (ebay and such) of the seller. Other than that - it's a crap shoot.
Puddy Mod is considering getting into the S2000 transmission rebuilding business. I hope he does - the guy is amazing - a perfectionist. It will be worth the cost to have him build a transmission. I have a spare '05 waiting for him to offer the service."
"The higher 6th gear of an AP2 transmission will give you about 2 more MPH at 4500 RPM compared to a stock AP1. If you're looking for a mileage breakthrough - forget it. It isn't going to improve your highway mileage more than a couple MPG at best (it'll never pay for itself).
At 4500 RPM: a stock AP1 will be at ~83.6 MPH, an AP2 transmission will bring that to just about 85.3 MPH - with stock AP1 tire size. Tire size can make a noticeable difference.
There isn't a huge performance advantage switching transmissions out without playing with the diff ratio. It's the combination that makes the difference -- actually, the AP2 trans only compliments the gains mainly produced with changing the final drive ratio.
A stock 4.1 diff. will feel ever so slightly peppier in an AP1 with an AP2 transmission;
A set of 4.30 will get you out of the hole faster in first and pulls harder in first and second - you're at 82 MPH @ 4500 RPM... essentially OEM highway cruising (AP1 w/ AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tire size), with better 1st 2nd and 3rd performance;
4.44s will get you a noticeably stronger pull through 3rd and in 4th. However, you give up a little up top to gain a lot down low (78.7 @ 4500: AP1 w/AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tires);
A 4.56/57 gearset will contribute to a generous pull all the way through 4th, but you're out of first fairly quickly. Highway cruising is a little more painful and noisy (~76.7 @ 4500 OEM AP1 tires), due to harmonic noise products with the gears. The later model gears (4.56) were much less prone to the harmonic noise issue.
When you get to 4.77 - first gear is almost worthless, and you get tired of shifting. Forget about using this car for long highway trips. However, this gearset is useable for city driving (73.3 @ 4500: AP1 w/AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tires), and is pretty good for stoplight to stoplight runs. All-in-all: 4.77s will produce a car more adept at track work than street work.
I've driven most of them - or been in cars with the ratio (4.30). The 4.44 ratio with an AP2 transmission is the best compromise for a slight performance bias in a street-driven N/A car (IMHO). 4.30s with an AP2 transmission gives you enough of an advantage over 4.10 that you may think it's worth the money - all while keeping highway efficiency. 4.30s are very good for low-boost applications. I recommend 4.44 gears for N/A use. The upside of 4.30s over 4.44s is you won't loose anything in highway mileage.
I have an AP1 with an AP2 transmission, 4.44 diff and 255/40/17 tires on the rear - and my 4500 RPM will give me just at 79.4 MPH. The tires put me somewhere in-between the 4.30 and 4.44 numbers - when compared to a fully stock car. The biggest difference is down low - a nice strong pull. City mileage is better than stock because I can get into 5th and 6th earlier - and highway mileage is only slightly less than stock - highway cruising is much nicer than my old 4.57 gears.
The car with 4.44s is not quite as quick as it was with 4.57 gears - but not even marginally enough to miss them. I had one of the early set of HTG/Richmond 4.57 gears - they were set up at Ganley for the HTG - poorly set up that is. The noise was terrible. So bad in fact I couldn't hear the bearing noise in the '04 AP2 transmission (Also bought through the HTG).
This time around I spent the extra cash and had PuddyDad (Puddy Mod Racing) build me one of his Stage 4 diffs (expensive - but worth it). The difference is significant - smoothness and as quiet as OEM. The reason my 4.44 is almost as fast as my old 4.57 is because of the quality of the build of the Puddy Mod diff. You get what you pay for (even though I paid WAY too much for the previous 4.57 setup).
For note: Stay away from used '04 transmissions. Buy '05 or later.
You have no way of knowing if you're getting a "good" transmission or not. Reputable dealers are asking anywhere from $950-$1500 for a used '05-'07 transmission. Get the VIN and discover what kind of accident the car was involved in - look at the rating (ebay and such) of the seller. Other than that - it's a crap shoot.
Puddy Mod is considering getting into the S2000 transmission rebuilding business. I hope he does - the guy is amazing - a perfectionist. It will be worth the cost to have him build a transmission. I have a spare '05 waiting for him to offer the service."
07-13-2011, 01:20 AM
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The following post was one I contributed with regard to AP2 transmissions in an AP1 - with the combined effects of using other final drive ratios. The final drive info may be informative for those looking into changing ratios.
"The higher 6th gear of an AP2 transmission will give you about 2 more MPH at 4500 RPM compared to a stock AP1. If you're looking for a mileage breakthrough - forget it. It isn't going to improve your highway mileage more than a couple MPG at best (it'll never pay for itself).
At 4500 RPM: a stock AP1 will be at ~83.6 MPH, an AP2 transmission will bring that to just about 85.3 MPH - with stock AP1 tire size. Tire size can make a noticeable difference.
There isn't a huge performance advantage switching transmissions out without playing with the diff ratio. It's the combination that makes the difference -- actually, the AP2 trans only compliments the gains mainly produced with changing the final drive ratio.
A stock 4.1 diff. will feel ever so slightly peppier in an AP1 with an AP2 transmission;
A set of 4.30 will get you out of the hole faster in first and pulls harder in first and second - you're at 82 MPH @ 4500 RPM... essentially OEM highway cruising (AP1 w/ AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tire size), with better 1st 2nd and 3rd performance;
4.44s will get you a noticeably stronger pull through 3rd and in 4th. However, you give up a little up top to gain a lot down low (78.7 @ 4500: AP1 w/AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tires);
A 4.56/57 gearset will contribute to a generous pull all the way through 4th, but you're out of first fairly quickly. Highway cruising is a little more painful and noisy (~76.7 @ 4500 OEM AP1 tires), due to harmonic noise products with the gears. The later model gears (4.56) were much less prone to the harmonic noise issue.
When you get to 4.77 - first gear is almost worthless, and you get tired of shifting. Forget about using this car for long highway trips. However, this gearset is useable for city driving (73.3 @ 4500: AP1 w/AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tires), and is pretty good for stoplight to stoplight runs. All-in-all: 4.77s will produce a car more adept at track work than street work.
I've driven most of them - or been in cars with the ratio (4.30). The 4.44 ratio with an AP2 transmission is the best compromise for a slight performance bias in a street-driven N/A car (IMHO). 4.30s with an AP2 transmission gives you enough of an advantage over 4.10 that you may think it's worth the money - all while keeping highway efficiency. 4.30s are very good for low-boost applications. I recommend 4.44 gears for N/A use. The upside of 4.30s over 4.44s is you won't loose anything in highway mileage.
I have an AP1 with an AP2 transmission, 4.44 diff and 255/40/17 tires on the rear - and my 4500 RPM will give me just at 79.4 MPH. The tires put me somewhere in-between the 4.30 and 4.44 numbers - when compared to a fully stock car. The biggest difference is down low - a nice strong pull. City mileage is better than stock because I can get into 5th and 6th earlier - and highway mileage is only slightly less than stock - highway cruising is much nicer than my old 4.57 gears.
The car with 4.44s is not quite as quick as it was with 4.57 gears - but not even marginally enough to miss them. I had one of the early set of HTG/Richmond 4.57 gears - they were set up at Ganley for the HTG - poorly set up that is. The noise was terrible. So bad in fact I couldn't hear the bearing noise in the '04 AP2 transmission (Also bought through the HTG).
This time around I spent the extra cash and had PuddyDad (Puddy Mod Racing) build me one of his Stage 4 diffs (expensive - but worth it). The difference is significant - smoothness and as quiet as OEM. The reason my 4.44 is almost as fast as my old 4.57 is because of the quality of the build of the Puddy Mod diff. You get what you pay for (even though I paid WAY too much for the previous 4.57 setup).
For note: Stay away from used '04 transmissions. Buy '05 or later.
You have no way of knowing if you're getting a "good" transmission or not. Reputable dealers are asking anywhere from $950-$1500 for a used '05-'07 transmission. Get the VIN and discover what kind of accident the car was involved in - look at the rating (ebay and such) of the seller. Other than that - it's a crap shoot.
Puddy Mod is considering getting into the S2000 transmission rebuilding business. I hope he does - the guy is amazing - a perfectionist. It will be worth the cost to have him build a transmission. I have a spare '05 waiting for him to offer the service."
"The higher 6th gear of an AP2 transmission will give you about 2 more MPH at 4500 RPM compared to a stock AP1. If you're looking for a mileage breakthrough - forget it. It isn't going to improve your highway mileage more than a couple MPG at best (it'll never pay for itself).
At 4500 RPM: a stock AP1 will be at ~83.6 MPH, an AP2 transmission will bring that to just about 85.3 MPH - with stock AP1 tire size. Tire size can make a noticeable difference.
There isn't a huge performance advantage switching transmissions out without playing with the diff ratio. It's the combination that makes the difference -- actually, the AP2 trans only compliments the gains mainly produced with changing the final drive ratio.
A stock 4.1 diff. will feel ever so slightly peppier in an AP1 with an AP2 transmission;
A set of 4.30 will get you out of the hole faster in first and pulls harder in first and second - you're at 82 MPH @ 4500 RPM... essentially OEM highway cruising (AP1 w/ AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tire size), with better 1st 2nd and 3rd performance;
4.44s will get you a noticeably stronger pull through 3rd and in 4th. However, you give up a little up top to gain a lot down low (78.7 @ 4500: AP1 w/AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tires);
A 4.56/57 gearset will contribute to a generous pull all the way through 4th, but you're out of first fairly quickly. Highway cruising is a little more painful and noisy (~76.7 @ 4500 OEM AP1 tires), due to harmonic noise products with the gears. The later model gears (4.56) were much less prone to the harmonic noise issue.
When you get to 4.77 - first gear is almost worthless, and you get tired of shifting. Forget about using this car for long highway trips. However, this gearset is useable for city driving (73.3 @ 4500: AP1 w/AP2 trans + OEM AP1 tires), and is pretty good for stoplight to stoplight runs. All-in-all: 4.77s will produce a car more adept at track work than street work.
I've driven most of them - or been in cars with the ratio (4.30). The 4.44 ratio with an AP2 transmission is the best compromise for a slight performance bias in a street-driven N/A car (IMHO). 4.30s with an AP2 transmission gives you enough of an advantage over 4.10 that you may think it's worth the money - all while keeping highway efficiency. 4.30s are very good for low-boost applications. I recommend 4.44 gears for N/A use. The upside of 4.30s over 4.44s is you won't loose anything in highway mileage.
I have an AP1 with an AP2 transmission, 4.44 diff and 255/40/17 tires on the rear - and my 4500 RPM will give me just at 79.4 MPH. The tires put me somewhere in-between the 4.30 and 4.44 numbers - when compared to a fully stock car. The biggest difference is down low - a nice strong pull. City mileage is better than stock because I can get into 5th and 6th earlier - and highway mileage is only slightly less than stock - highway cruising is much nicer than my old 4.57 gears.
The car with 4.44s is not quite as quick as it was with 4.57 gears - but not even marginally enough to miss them. I had one of the early set of HTG/Richmond 4.57 gears - they were set up at Ganley for the HTG - poorly set up that is. The noise was terrible. So bad in fact I couldn't hear the bearing noise in the '04 AP2 transmission (Also bought through the HTG).
This time around I spent the extra cash and had PuddyDad (Puddy Mod Racing) build me one of his Stage 4 diffs (expensive - but worth it). The difference is significant - smoothness and as quiet as OEM. The reason my 4.44 is almost as fast as my old 4.57 is because of the quality of the build of the Puddy Mod diff. You get what you pay for (even though I paid WAY too much for the previous 4.57 setup).
For note: Stay away from used '04 transmissions. Buy '05 or later.
You have no way of knowing if you're getting a "good" transmission or not. Reputable dealers are asking anywhere from $950-$1500 for a used '05-'07 transmission. Get the VIN and discover what kind of accident the car was involved in - look at the rating (ebay and such) of the seller. Other than that - it's a crap shoot.
Puddy Mod is considering getting into the S2000 transmission rebuilding business. I hope he does - the guy is amazing - a perfectionist. It will be worth the cost to have him build a transmission. I have a spare '05 waiting for him to offer the service."
Anybody know what kind of difference in time 1/4 mile 4.77 final gear vs stock? And what of final gears are faster in 1/4 miles? Thanks
10-19-2015, 05:37 AM
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