The Prophet.

S2ki,

A month ago I traded my ap1 for a 2006 ap2. I have been somewhat regretting it due to the common bog issue with these cars... It is really ruining my ap2 experience. I know the 06-07 part-throttle-low-rpm-bog issue has been beaten to death, but even after heavy research here, I havent found any solid answers. None of the threads seem to have solid answers but they all bring up the same problem.

The biggest thread on here about that bog had really vague solutions and a handful of guys said A full Flashpro tune would solve the problem, while others said they just live with it (which i will completely refuse to.) One guy mentioned a lean condition right at throttle tip in around 2-3k rpms which was the only answer i came across that made sense, but he was the only person in all the threads i read that mentioned this and had graphs as proof. Not to mention he said Flashpro cant fix it unless i ran a different standalone due to a certain feature Flashpro lacked that other ems's such as aem had. Others said its a dbw problem but based on my previous Honda dbw experiences, i have a strong feeling it is not related to that or the latency experienced with dbw systems due to the conditions occuring when it bogs. Plenty blamed the clutch delay valve but i know for sure it isnt due to how the problem can be induced while youre already in a gear.

In a nutshell, when driving normally, the car will bog under quick part-throttle application in any gear but only at lower rpms... Ive noticed it mainly happening between 2 to 3k rpms. I rarely feel it during spirited driving. Dont get this confused with the common hesitation, even i felt that in my ap1 and my integras, etc. The bog almost feels like a car acting weird that needs a tune, or as some others have described, throttle plate partially closing for half a second then opening back up. Or even timing going whack for a second.

Everything ignition related, fuel related, ecu and dbw related are all good. Just like many others who deal with this, its almost a mystery. And no, i highly doubt it is heat soak as i have experienced that in my old ap1 and there have been times in heavy traffic, which is when the problem Always happens, in 90-100 degree weather and i wouldnt be able to induce the bog.

There are so many contradicting threads and responses that im really frustrated and having to type this whole post on an ipad is working my nerves even more... Hahah.


Lets assume all other variables (spark plugs, throttle body, etc etc.) are all fine... So my question is for those who kept saying Flashpro will fix the problem... Will it? im talking about a full tune, not running one of the preset calibrations. Does anybody who have fought this have a solid solution? Anything?

All of you guys' input and any help would be greatly appreciated and would put my mind at ease. Thank you!

The Prophet.

Also, i came across a few users who have experienced this problem with brand new 06+ ap2's... Have any of you guys gotten it fixed?

Car Analogy

I have an '06, and I experience it too. I don't have a solution, but Flashpro is in my plans. Not to fix this, but if it does, it would be icing on the cake.

I can tell you one reason why this topic is so muddled. As you atest, there are many, similar, common S concerns, that feel quite similar, that its easy for someone that hasn't lived with both a dbw S and a dbc S like you have, to say, oh, my S does that too, so its not unique to dbw S. But as you have found, it IS different. It is something that dbw cars do, that the others do not.

I am convinced its in the dbw programming. I know other dbw cars, otber makes, other models, don't all do this, but then each dbw system has its own programming. I am not saying its something inherent in the concept of dbw, rather something inherent in the execution of our dbw.

If it can be feasibly cured, I would think Flashpro would be that cure.

The Prophet.

Car Analogy, thanks for the reply! You're right and you hit the nail on the head there. The biggest thread on s2ki about this on dbw ap2's had a whole bunch of ap1 guys chiming in saying they have the issue too. When I had my ap1, I experienced bogging and hesitation but the ones felt on my dbw ap2 are clearly caused by a different culprit.

And I'm like you. No solution, will get Flashpro regardless, and if it fixes it, then words will not be able to describe how happy I will be! I just hope those few that said Flashpro will fix it were actually right.

Iniamyen

Just another data point, FWIW, I have a very low mileage (11k) '06 AP2 and I experience low RPM bogging when getting on the throttle. Usually most noticeable in 1st/2nd gears.

I don't have any experience driving an AP1, so my data point is maybe less useful than someone who has. But it may be the same thing.

It doesn't affect my enjoyment of the car since at low RPMs in those gears I usually don't need to get on it very much. But I understand your point of view too.

shind3

The lean tip-in occurs ALL the time but it is most noticeable by the driver from low load and low RPM since the engine is making so little torque than any loss of it due to a lean AFR is a big percentage change.

If you want any hope of fixing this, tell Hondata to get off their lazy ass and let us tune Accel Enrichment like every other damn ECU tuning solution.
Spam their email and this thread I started there:
http://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=17928

The Prophet.

Iniamyen, since reading your post it actually made me feel better. I started thinking of the issue as my car just wanting to go faster and hates going slow haha. Not to mention, when i really do get on it it doesn't happen anyways.

shind3, Accel Enrichment, that's exactly what the other guy was complaining about with Flashpro. You're exactly right too. Since the problem has been bothering me, I've been taking the s out more and I noticed that with VSA and A/C off, it didn't happen at all to me on that drive. I don't understand why VSA would affect it, but it would seem like the a/c would amplify the feeling as it definitely robs power. I'm just not going to worry about it as it rarely happens when I'm really putting the car through its paces, so I'm just going to get Flashpro and enjoy the car and stop stressing it. I will definitely shoot Hondata an email to inquire about getting the Accel Enrichment as this is now becoming more apparent the more people I talk to about this problem.

Thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate it!

shind3

So Hondata wants others who are experiencing this problem to post their datalogs and calibrations in the thread there.
http://www.hondata.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=17928

The burden of proof is on me before they let me tune Accel Enrichment, lol. So, if you want this to be fixed you'll have to get off your ass and post datalogs.

If you guys want to help show this condition do the following from various RPMs.

Start Log.
Hold 10% throttle for 4 seconds.
Change to 40% throttle and hold for 4 seconds.
End Log.

Billman250

A customer of mine stated that after a WOT, at most RPMs 3k or 6k or 8k, he would re-apply the throttle and get a hesitation. Basically a hesitation that followed a WOT.

I put a used DBW throttle body on it and it cured it completely. Dragon trip has likely over 1000 WOT events and it worked flawlessly.

The Prophet.

Shind3, do they even sound like they are considering it? Flashpro is such a great thing to have but I'm starting to feel bad for those with more serious builds than I have or have cars that see a lot of track time. I'm sure there are many others who can really utilize it.

Billman, thanks for that heads up. Although my tune is coming up soon, I intend on pushing it back so I can buy the Ballade 70mm DBW throttle body kit just in case. But then arises the issue of what intake to match up to it... we will see.

Thanks everybody!