Txs2k

This sounds like the early discussions & concerns about the M Roadster a few years back- which BMW largely remedied with traction control... I'm sure this will stir a debate, but I think Honda should add TC, at least as an option - of course, it should be a system that can be switched off for those who wish to do so.

dizzy

Maybe YOUR tires wore out on the inside... but not mine. They have 10k miles (including 2 track days), and while they are close to needing replacing, the rears are worn perfectly even across the width of the tire. I'd say I've got another 2-5k street miles left (??). The fronts however are worn more in the center.

And... for the record, I've never lost the back end or spun. I've even come home in the rain 2 or 3 in the morning a couple times and drove around the empty wide corners TRYING to get the back to come out. The second night I was out I tried 20 or so times taking corners way too fast, figuring I'd either be able to catch it (the ultimate goal of what I was trying to do), or if I lost it, I'd have enough room not to hit anything (no other cars in sight). Of course I guess I wasn't trying hard enough... the back stayed planted when I was taking these corners MUCH faster than I what I would consider safe for wet driving. I was smooth and did everything I should when cornering fast... I supposed if I popped of the gas or something similar, I may have lost it, but like I said, I wasn't trying THAT hard...

I did however, on the last big turn before getting home, make a fast left and finally got the back to swing out. It was still raining and the road has a little dip then rise, so as I came over the small rise in the middle of the turn, the back swung out, however, it was completely controllable, and I was able to bring it back in line as I finished the turn. Of course, I was ready for it, which helps, but the correction was easy, and the car did exactly what I told it to. I'm not touting my skills as a driver, as I've never had experience correcting for a loose rear before. I've read stuff, taken a driving course, and had an additional track day, but thats it. All this talk here of how easy the rears breaks has me paranoid, which is the whole reason I was out trying to get some first hand experience.

-David

speeeding

Jschimdt,
I agree w/ everything you said, except for the tires. I've got nearly 8000miles on my rear S02's and I still have a lot of meat left on the inside. Granted, I do use a separate set of tires for the track, but perhaps you should check your rear camber.

Bieg

Better check your alignment. My rear tires are wearing perfectly even. I also don't have any complaints about the tires or handling.

BTW I have 11,000 miles on them. I drive fast but smooth and check the air pressure (32 all around) at least once a week

Maybe the people who are complaining about the tires and handling really have an alignment problem?

jschmidt

I'd suggest you all check your alignments. Stock setting is -1.5 degrees negative camber. You don't need to look at tires to know what this rather edgy setting will do. If you're wear is really that even (you'd really have to measure) I'd bet your settings aren't within spec.

BTW, I run a different alignment and tires than stock. While your advice is appreciated, it won't help me now.

10k miles with two track days? I'd say that's remarkable. "You're mileage may vary", I guess.

Triple-H

IMHO - smooth steering inputs and minimal weight transfer from front to back is the key to control!

After the first 1,000 miles with my '02 Spa, I decided the 32psi tire pressure on all 4 corners was NOT for me. I now run the backs with a couple of pounds more air than the fronts and some of the oversteer has been removed.

Bieg

Odd that. As a rule you get the best grip from the lowest tire pressure you can run without the tire rolling over onto the sidewall. That is why you "chalk" (white liquid shoe polish works well) your sidewalls in Auto X, to see if the tire is rolling over. By rights you should have increased the oversteer by going to a higher pressure in the rears and I have found that to be the case with mine.

Bieg

You are wearing out the insides of your tires at 6000 miles and complaining about the tires/handling and you are suggesting the people who are happy with the tires/handling and are getting good even tire wear check THEIR alignment? Something is wrong with this picture. If the specs call for wearing out the insides of your rear tires at 6000 miles (and unpredictable handling) then just maybe the specs are wrong.

I don't know what the problem is but I am starting to suspect that the people who complain about the "snap oversteer" and poor feedback from the S02s might all be having the inside wear problem you describe. Those of us who have good even tire wear seem to be quite happy with the way the S02s perform and the way the car handles including predictable and progressive oversteer.

The only constants I can give you with the way I drive my car is that when I drive it hard I am on the throttle through the corners to keep the rear planted and I always run 32 psi (checked with a calibrated guage). I have one of the first S2000s (delivered in October 1999). Maybe the specs have changed since then?

How can so many people report such different experiences? I have no doubt of the accounts people are giving here but it still baffles me that they do not match my experience (or others who have no problems). What is the variable then? Driving style? Air pressures? Suspension settings? Maybe we should try to collect data from everyone as to see what the cause of all this controversy is.

jschmidt

Beig:
BTW, I enjoyed my time on your ignore list but I have to say you've been quite civil since taking me off. . I guess we're both "old dogs" on S2Ki now.

The specs are the specs and the effect of negative camber is what it is as well. We have so many members in the mid-atlantic region running other tires and going perfectly fast that I think there is plenty of evidence that the OEM's are not so special (in the company of other ultra-performance tires.) When someone tells me they get 10,12, or 15k miles from the rear OEMs I think they are the exception, not the rule. (And secretly I wonder how fast they drive.)

BTW, I didn't have the uneven wear problem because I rotated them. I've seen it plenty, though so I mentioned it to be helpful. It may well be that this wear pattern is an issue of whether the car is used as a daily driver (with freeway miles) or just a Sunday canyon carver.
I'd be interested to know what you see if you take an actual measurement (not just eyeball) on your tires.

Oh, and more negative camber (up to about -2deg max) is likely to reduce oversteer more than increase it.

ScaperS2K

I've mentioned this a couple times on this board, but will do it again.

My S2k has about 6000 miles. I have yet to feel truely comfortable going around any turns that are a bit sharp. I have always owned manuals, but all trucks. I'm a landscaper and I feel more comfortable taking my dumptrucks around corners! It's not that I'm a pansy azz or don't know how to drive. I have gone around corners well under V-TEC at speeds I would do in my Toyota pickup and felt the rear move. Sounds stupid? Hell yeh.

near 90 degree turns at 32mph will get that sliding feeling. I know 'that sliding feeling' too, I am constantly throwing my Trucks into turns and sliding with no fear. This car seems unpredictable. Honestly I have always wondered whether my car had problems.

Yes I have checked for the rubber bushings at delivery.

Here's the thing, on a 1-2 shift at 9000, perfectly straight, the car has spun and has moved the rear to the left about 8". Go figure.

No, I'm not a bad driver, ever seen anyone take a 24' dump truck side ways for fun? I can!