When S02's Attack
05-07-2001, 04:39 PM
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Look another tire thread 
First things first, no I did not lose it at 90 mph in the rain and my car is fine. I was on my way out to grab a bite to eat this evening and my S02's gave me a bit of a surprise. Very near my house there is a turn onto a two lane median'ed commercial parkway. It is a 90 degree right onto an uphill climb. It has it's own turn lane onto it and T intersects the other road at a light so there is no chance of traffic. I like to take this corner coming in tight and sweeping from the right to left lane. I've done it hundreds of times in many different cars. This time was different...
I was not hot shoeing it through the turn at all really. I was 2K below VTEC just carrying a fair amount of speed into the turn, but well within the 45 mph speed limits of both roads. Just a bit past the "apex" of the turn, where I would start to feed out into the left lane, the rear end broke completely loose w/no warning. No squeal, no screech, no slight slip (all things I've experienced in the past w/the S2K) It just, bam, went sliding fast.
It was no big deal. I was mentally prepared for it, in that I was taking the corner above a normal traffic pace, even though I didn't expect it. The thing was, to correct I had to counter steer very slightly and apply a little more throttle. Had I knee jerk braked or even just let off the throttle abruptly I'm fairly sure it would have spun right around. Someone less experienced w/rwd or just not mentally prepared to deal w/that situation could have been in deep, quick (not that I'm the lord of rwd or anything like that, far from it; please don't read that into the last statement). I was not tipping into the throttle at all at the start of the spin, just holding a steady position. It was a strictly "suspension" generated tail slide. What surprised me was the complete absence of any warning. I was well below the limits of the car as I've experienced them in the past. And when it did slide, it went very quick. A lot quicker than any intentional sliding I've done in the car.
Here are the main contributors to this incident as I see it 1) the tires were cold, I was only 3-4 miles down the road, though the temps were 75+ 2) Mr. ware bar is freshly aquatinted w/Mr asphalt 3) need to check tire pressure... Well, looooong story short, time for some new tires
P.S. this is at 7,800 mostly sunny no track time miles.
[Edited by Silver S2K on 05-07-2001 at 05:49 PM]
First things first, no I did not lose it at 90 mph in the rain and my car is fine. I was on my way out to grab a bite to eat this evening and my S02's gave me a bit of a surprise. Very near my house there is a turn onto a two lane median'ed commercial parkway. It is a 90 degree right onto an uphill climb. It has it's own turn lane onto it and T intersects the other road at a light so there is no chance of traffic. I like to take this corner coming in tight and sweeping from the right to left lane. I've done it hundreds of times in many different cars. This time was different... I was not hot shoeing it through the turn at all really. I was 2K below VTEC just carrying a fair amount of speed into the turn, but well within the 45 mph speed limits of both roads. Just a bit past the "apex" of the turn, where I would start to feed out into the left lane, the rear end broke completely loose w/no warning. No squeal, no screech, no slight slip (all things I've experienced in the past w/the S2K) It just, bam, went sliding fast.
It was no big deal. I was mentally prepared for it, in that I was taking the corner above a normal traffic pace, even though I didn't expect it. The thing was, to correct I had to counter steer very slightly and apply a little more throttle. Had I knee jerk braked or even just let off the throttle abruptly I'm fairly sure it would have spun right around. Someone less experienced w/rwd or just not mentally prepared to deal w/that situation could have been in deep, quick (not that I'm the lord of rwd or anything like that, far from it; please don't read that into the last statement). I was not tipping into the throttle at all at the start of the spin, just holding a steady position. It was a strictly "suspension" generated tail slide. What surprised me was the complete absence of any warning. I was well below the limits of the car as I've experienced them in the past. And when it did slide, it went very quick. A lot quicker than any intentional sliding I've done in the car.
Here are the main contributors to this incident as I see it 1) the tires were cold, I was only 3-4 miles down the road, though the temps were 75+ 2) Mr. ware bar is freshly aquatinted w/Mr asphalt 3) need to check tire pressure... Well, looooong story short, time for some new tires
P.S. this is at 7,800 mostly sunny no track time miles.
[Edited by Silver S2K on 05-07-2001 at 05:49 PM]
05-07-2001, 07:32 PM
#3
maybe too much tire wear, or
(like happened to me) you hit a change in pavement- a small bump can lift the rear enough to cause a loss of traction, especially if there is acceleration at the rears in a corner. glad to hear that you were able to get it back- i was not so lucky, as i corrected into a power slide... was lucky that i eventually regained traction so that the brakes were effective.
(like happened to me) you hit a change in pavement- a small bump can lift the rear enough to cause a loss of traction, especially if there is acceleration at the rears in a corner. glad to hear that you were able to get it back- i was not so lucky, as i corrected into a power slide... was lucky that i eventually regained traction so that the brakes were effective.
05-07-2001, 07:50 PM
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lvs2k, that's not out of the question, but I would have expected the fronts to let go also in that case? I went by the same spot on the way home to look for a greasy or oily spot but did not see one. But it did have that sort of quick, unexpected character. The road is not bumpy but is a somewhat rapid change in elevation (up). I think it is mostly the worn cold tires. What made it remarkable was the quickness of the slip and the total lack of warning. Had I been going quicker I might have been in wanabe's shoes.
05-07-2001, 07:58 PM
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Silver S2K,
Yep...these S02's behave like r compounds if you ask me. There is no chirping to warn you that the tires are about to break holding friction. There is a thin like between road holding and breaking loose. The tires can be your best friend if you know them, but sometimes they can kick you while you are down also.
As for me...I gave up on them as daily drivable because of my fear of hydroplaning. I only use the S02's on weekends when I go dragging, or for the weekend race event.
Yep...these S02's behave like r compounds if you ask me. There is no chirping to warn you that the tires are about to break holding friction. There is a thin like between road holding and breaking loose. The tires can be your best friend if you know them, but sometimes they can kick you while you are down also.
As for me...I gave up on them as daily drivable because of my fear of hydroplaning. I only use the S02's on weekends when I go dragging, or for the weekend race event.
05-07-2001, 08:15 PM
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Based on my experience today I'd say so Barry 
Seriously though, I have noticed a gradual slip in performance as I've gotten down to the ware bars, but the car still behaved the same way. The limits were just reached a little sooner, but with the same kinds of warning. Not so with this event.
Seriously though, I have noticed a gradual slip in performance as I've gotten down to the ware bars, but the car still behaved the same way. The limits were just reached a little sooner, but with the same kinds of warning. Not so with this event.
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05-08-2001, 05:16 AM
#8
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You made a good recovery. When I take my S2000 to driving school, your maneuver to avoid a worsening spin would be my first priority to learn!
I've had a lot of RWD experience, but not much at the limits. Well, I can't say that. Most of it was at the limits of my '74 Dodge Dart or my '63 VW Camper. They were not exactly in the same league as the S2000. The VW had 1.5 liters but 52 hp!!! The Dart had 3.7 liters (225 slant 6), with 105 hp at 3,600 rpm and 180 ft pounds at 1,600 rpm and a redline of 5,000 rpm.
If anyone wants to know, that whopping 180 ft pounds of torque did not give it the "push me into the seat" feel of our F20C.
I've had a lot of RWD experience, but not much at the limits. Well, I can't say that. Most of it was at the limits of my '74 Dodge Dart or my '63 VW Camper. They were not exactly in the same league as the S2000. The VW had 1.5 liters but 52 hp!!! The Dart had 3.7 liters (225 slant 6), with 105 hp at 3,600 rpm and 180 ft pounds at 1,600 rpm and a redline of 5,000 rpm.
If anyone wants to know, that whopping 180 ft pounds of torque did not give it the "push me into the seat" feel of our F20C.
