tokyo_james

Just a few thoughts thrown together in rough form.........

I think that the problems that some people are finding (and calling "snap oversteer") do not come from one specific problem. I think they come from a combination of the following:-

1. it is a powerful car
2. it is a relatively inexpensive car
3. it is rear wheel drive
4. it has stiff suspension
5. it is relatively light weight
6. the tyres are quite pressure sensitive
7. the tyres are quite temperature sensitive

I admit that I, for one, did not really respect this car when I bought it. It flatters the driver when driven at anything up to about 8/10ths. It encourages you to push on, and is great fun when you do. Because of the affordability of the car, there are many people like me driving them that don't have the experience of driving sports cars like this.

Personally I think that the problems arise when you don't show respect for the car, the conditions or the location.

If you are pushing the car at anything close to 9/10th even, on the street, you are not making allowance for the location. If you are pushing on in the wet or cold you are not making allowance for the conditions. If you are driving it the same as your last front wheel drive car, you are not making allowance for the car.

This is a lightweight, powerful, rear wheel drive, stiffly sprung sports car with tyres to match that performance. It cannot be safely driven on public roads at 9/10ths of its limits or above. Remember that and you shouldn't have problems.

Jason Saini

Yep, it definitely makes things more interesting! That's why we have such a large front swaybar. Not only because the tyres are stickier, but also because there is much less difference in the width of the R-Compounds between the front and rear. Obviously R-Compounds make the suspension roll over farther and make a car's bad habits even worse. That being said, it's all still very dependant on tire pressure, and surface condition. On a very smooth surface with R-Compounds, the car might still be fairly predictable... loose, but predictable. When that surface turns bumpy, things get upredictable in a hurry! Then you just change the front swaybar and the car gets controllable again.

Allan Haggai

Jason makes another good point on the front sway bar. The S2000 in stock form is better suited for road course work (typically smooth transitions from corner to corner) than autox (rapid transitions from gate to gate). In my experience, a car optimized for autox would have too much understeer to generate the quickest times on a road course; and a good road race set up is almost undrivable on a tight autox course.

I have been struggling with this whole "snap" issue because like many others, I have found this car very predictable and easy to recover. Bumps mid corner can give this car (and many other cars) a fit! On a road course, you should know the bumps are there by the time you are up to "balls to the wall speeds" and be prepared to deal with them. On the street, it is unwise to drive fast enough on unfamiliar roads for bumps to matter!

2kturkey

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Allan Haggai
[B]Jason makes another good point on the front sway bar.

Lawdog

I always like to define terms when discussing a subject. When we talk about "snap" oversteer are we talking about a sudden, unexpected oversteer when cornering, or the oversteer that occurs when the back end slides out, the car is corrected (or more likely over corrected) and the car oversteers to the opposite side in a violent way? It seems to me that the first is just oversteer and the second is snap oversteer.

negcamber

Generally cars with more understeer perform better on a roadcourse than they do on an autox course. Many of the Italian mid-engine livestock have too much understeer for the tight low speed turns of an autox, but on open highspeed roadcourses they excel.

Allan Haggai

Wait a minute guys, I thought the autox crowd was adding bigger front bars to induce some understeer thus keeping the tail under them. (help me Jason!)

I TOTALLY disagree with the need for understeer on a road course. What you want is balance, being able to induce oversteer or understeer with driver inputs. The S2k does this really well bone stock.

Lawdog, "snap" as I understand it, refers to a sudden side step in one direction. Loosing it on the second wag is just simply not doing a good job of catching the first slide early enough, and/or over correcting.

krazik

Here is a great article about the Snap Oversteer.

http://s2000.vtec.net/handling/s2000_handling.html

This was written by one of our members. But I won't say who.

Jason Saini

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Allan Haggai
[B]Wait a minute guys,

cdelena

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jason Saini
[B]

You raise three good points!