Road Rage

bobistheoilguy? Sounds gay...

I think the pre-oilers are pretty worthless and here is why:

1) They are predicated on a false assumption. Everyone assumes, and all the snake-oil ads play it up to the max, that all the wear occurs at startup, and is due to the oil being in the sump. Well, that is wrong. First, some oil stays on the upper cylinder head parts, due to the natural affinity charge of the oil to the negative charge of the metal. Synoils are especially likely to do this. At startup, there is the condition of boundary lubrication - not exactly metal to metal, but close.

This is where the AW (antiwear) additives (calcium, barium, etc) come in - they provide protection against metal to metal until the oil gets up to the cylinder heads. They are called "sacrificial" additives because they are used up over time. They greatly reduce any wear that would occur from metal contact.

This is also the reason why you want to use low vis, high flow oils in cold climates - they provide oil pressure and elastodynamic lubrication faster. A 10w30 synoil is fine, but a 5w30 or even a 0w30 are the fastest if you live in Siberia.

The false assumption? - that startup wear is caused by lack of oil! There are a number of other factors which oil technologists attribute to wear:

a) acid formation - a start/stop cycle before the engine can reach normal operating temps allows a lot of water vapor to accumulate in the oil - this reacts with sulfurs in the fuel to form acids. These can cause wear even when the engine is not running! That is the main reason to change the oil before winter storage

b) Homeostasis has not been achieved - remember, that the engine is designed to operate under a design objective - coolant temp, oil temp, etc. The metals in an engine are quite dissimilar (rings are chrome plated, pistons may be aluminum, rods are steel or aluminum or titanium, cylinder bores are iron or aluminum, etc. Each of these materials has its own thermal foot print - it expands/contracts at different rates. Until thermal homesostasis is achieved, there will be accelerated wear, or the tendency to wear (diminished by the oil additives). This will occur whether there is pre-oiling or not. Get i?

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Now, in the days of straight 30 weight or higher, pre-oiling made sense - since it took so long for thick films oils to reach the wear points on the upper engine (cam lobes, rocker arm tips, etc). Today is much far less sense, or in my case, no sense.
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I believe it (the pre-oiler) is a marketing ploy, pure and simple, designed to appeal to the technically illiterate or ignorant (I mean that in the true sense of the word - not everyone can be an expert in everything). It tries to address a complex mechanical issue simplistically.

Isn't the same nonsense that Slick-50 and others of that ilk tried to portray? - they scared people with the idea of "wear at startup due to oil starvation" and that somehow the PTFE "film" (which itself was a lie) would protect against that - a fact predicated on a lie is suspect in my book. And also remember that every one of the miracle oil products that claimed to "reduce wear at startup" were unwilling or unable to prove it to the FTC's satisfaction.
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Finally, if the pre-oiler were truly the miracle it is claimed to be, why has no manufacturer (to my knowledge) delivered a car with that option? Surely, Bentley or Rolls or M-B or McLaren or Ferrari would have incorporated such a breakthrough to make a buck?! Imagine the ad copy:

"The Ferrari Enzo's POLITE system (pre-oil lube initiation technology) protects your $200k engine investment by ensuring that oil pressure and lubricant flow to the extremities of your engine's innards are protected, even at startup where _____% (add your number: 10,20,50,100,200?) of wear occurs". This is a $10,000 option, but highly recommended".

Of course, that is ludicrous - not because it would not sell, but because it is not needed. BTW, the Enzo comes with some "magic" Shell synoil, which they rape you for $60/quart, or $720 per oil change!

Prancing Horse

Road Rage,

I agree with many of your statements, however, a very reputable laboratory that performs spectrographic oil analysis states:

"We recommend cutting back on excessive idling and short trips, as these driving conditions are harder on an engine. We have also seen very good results from pre-oilers, which are add-on electrical oil pumps that come on when the ignition does to build oil pressure before the engine starts. Much of the wear in your oil is caused at the start-up. Engines using a pre-oiler tend to run very low wear metals and can usually run the oil for longer use intervals. (1)
"

Secondly, in my opinion, from a business standpoint, manufactures are reluctant to use pre-oilers since that will remove the potential for future new car sales. If a pre-oiler adds x amount of life to an engine, manufactures have therefore extended the need for people to keep their existing cars. This would be detrimental to manufactures, hence the reluctance to use these systems in mass produced vehicles. So why adopt this system that requires additional engineering and manufacturing for something that will generate less sales in the long term?


Oh my! Talk about rape. But the old saying is true; as your income rises, so does the willingness to spend any amount of money on trivial items. Whats a few grand here and there?



(1) http://www.blackstone-labs.com/faq.html

svatne

Road Rage and others,
What are your opinions/experiences with gasoline additives, e.g. Amsoil and Techron, that are supposed to clean fuel injectors?
Thanks

xviper

I've read the opinion of Road Rage with regards to fuel additives for "performance" and they are the similar to mine. Save your money.
As for fuel injector cleaners, I've made a habit of throwing in a bottle at every oil change. I don't know if it helps but it's cheap enough and after doing this for over a decade on all my cars, none have shown any detrimental effects, so I keep doing it. Injectors "can" get dirty but with today's fuel blends, especially from major refineries, I don't think injectors get that bad anymore.
I'm also curious what Road Rage has to say on this.

VeilsideAP1

Motul 8100 Eco 5W-30... Works great, and made an amazing difference in the feel of the car. I would recomend this to anyone, if they are willing to pay the extra couple of bucks per quart. If not, check out Redline or Amsoil

RazorV3

[QUOTE]Originally posted by xviper
[B]
I've read the opinion of Road Rage with regards to fuel additives for "performance" and they are the similar to mine.

Road Rage

Careful with 44K - it is a very strong solvent, more designed to fix a car with a problem than for month to month prophylaxis - there have been reports of solenoid delamination in some GM injectr designs from the powerful action of 44K.

I would recommend a less strong cleaner used regularly to avoid getting mucked up in the first place. I use SI-2 from Red Line with every tank, or in wife's car, Regane or SI-1 (full bottle) at every oil change.

Road Rage

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Prancing Horse
[B]Road Rage,

Road Rage

http://royalmgi.com/pdf/rpmotoroilmps.pdf

http://www.xl7500.com/top%20ten.htm

http://yarchive.net/car/coldstart.html

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Here are two synoil companies who do n0ot think pre-lubing is the way to go.

But first read THE LAST link - it is an engineer responding to a questions (persistent and somewhat argumentative) on pre-lube. His (the engineer's) take is that synoil may provide more benefit than pre-oiling. He makes excellent points, sort of my argument that if pre-oiling were the saving grace of engines, it would be seen more in industrial engines, and is not.

tritium_pie

I always wait until 2 bars before putting my car in gear, ostensibly to allow the different metals to reach their normal thermal operating ranges. think this is a bit of overkill?