Used S2k buying advice needed
08-22-2008, 03:40 PM
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Used S2k buying advice needed
I'm looking for a weekend / toy car. I am considering a used boxster and the s2k. I personally like the higher torque of the boxster, and love how it sounds - but I can get a much newer/lower mileage car for way less money - and the S2k is way more reliable. at least that's what I think... i've been on a lot of boxster boards and while it's not chronic - there are quite a few peopel posting they have had motor failure. and you can't rebuild the boxster motor - so you end up eating about $7k in cost for hte motor plus labor...in the end most guys are spending upwards of $12,000-14,000 to repair the motor on their boxsters. OUCH.
the roadster is going to be a weekend car only. I work like 5 miles from home - so i'll probably use the "toy" car to blast to work once in a while, but I have a nice reliable daily driver for regular commuting, hauling kids, groceries, etc. i'll proably do a track day like once a year just for kicks...
that said - I don't care if I get an AP1 or AP2. i've read the various threads that praise or bash them both - and honestly, i don't care. i've test driven new ones, so i've only driven the ap2 - but i want to be on a budget, and may get an ap1 simply to stay as cheap as possible. i want to spend under 20k.
my main concern is overall relaiblity. what kind of engine reliability does the s2k have and if it did blow up/break - what am i looking at to rebuild/repair it? are there plentiful used motors, or rebuilds - or does Honda jack you and you have to get one from them at some ridiculous charge like the porsche people do???
one main reason I am shying away from the porsche - despite really like it - is that it's just too darn expensive to maintain. given that this car for me, will be somethign i play with once in a while, i kind of want somethign i can drive, enjoy, and not have to pour a pile of money into it. i will replace stuff with performance parts..so i'll probabl upgrade wheels, nice tires, add performance shocks/springs, mabye an exhaust...no FI...don't want to get that crazy.
are there any years that are "stay away from" for a used car purchaser?
i know the general adage is get the newest lowest mileage car you can afford...with a wrranty if you can...but given my budget that may be hard to find. from looking at prices, i might be able to go as new as an 05...depends on how flexible on price dealers / private parties are. i live in so california - so I have a TON to pick from. there are hundreds of used s2ks for sale on autotrader...
in my price range i coudl find nice low mileage 02-04 cars for sure.
overall what kind of routine maintenance costs am I looking at on these things? is it as reliable as a civic/accord? if that's the case, i can drive it, run the hell out of it, and as lng as I do the standard stuff - I should e fine.
i've read about over revving...some cars having problems..is this something i can detect or a dealer cn detect if i get it checked? what happens if you get one of these cars? does the motor go out?
will these cars go 100k+ miles easy or b/c they are so high performance / high strung do they crap out sooner?
the roadster is going to be a weekend car only. I work like 5 miles from home - so i'll probably use the "toy" car to blast to work once in a while, but I have a nice reliable daily driver for regular commuting, hauling kids, groceries, etc. i'll proably do a track day like once a year just for kicks...
that said - I don't care if I get an AP1 or AP2. i've read the various threads that praise or bash them both - and honestly, i don't care. i've test driven new ones, so i've only driven the ap2 - but i want to be on a budget, and may get an ap1 simply to stay as cheap as possible. i want to spend under 20k.
my main concern is overall relaiblity. what kind of engine reliability does the s2k have and if it did blow up/break - what am i looking at to rebuild/repair it? are there plentiful used motors, or rebuilds - or does Honda jack you and you have to get one from them at some ridiculous charge like the porsche people do???
one main reason I am shying away from the porsche - despite really like it - is that it's just too darn expensive to maintain. given that this car for me, will be somethign i play with once in a while, i kind of want somethign i can drive, enjoy, and not have to pour a pile of money into it. i will replace stuff with performance parts..so i'll probabl upgrade wheels, nice tires, add performance shocks/springs, mabye an exhaust...no FI...don't want to get that crazy.
are there any years that are "stay away from" for a used car purchaser?
i know the general adage is get the newest lowest mileage car you can afford...with a wrranty if you can...but given my budget that may be hard to find. from looking at prices, i might be able to go as new as an 05...depends on how flexible on price dealers / private parties are. i live in so california - so I have a TON to pick from. there are hundreds of used s2ks for sale on autotrader...
in my price range i coudl find nice low mileage 02-04 cars for sure.
overall what kind of routine maintenance costs am I looking at on these things? is it as reliable as a civic/accord? if that's the case, i can drive it, run the hell out of it, and as lng as I do the standard stuff - I should e fine.
i've read about over revving...some cars having problems..is this something i can detect or a dealer cn detect if i get it checked? what happens if you get one of these cars? does the motor go out?
will these cars go 100k+ miles easy or b/c they are so high performance / high strung do they crap out sooner?
08-23-2008, 12:51 AM
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It's all really personal prefrence ap1's have the unforgiving suspension and slightly dated interior and exterior, while the ap2"s have the "softer" suspension and the updated motor with a little more torque. As far as the Boxter great car but it's in a different league compared to S. That car is for people that don't mind dropping an ass load for an service visit or a new motor! Real cars like the S you can beat the hell out of and they keep coming back for more. Not to mention if your planning on adding high performance parts a whole lot cheaper for the S. Reliable oh ya ap1 or ap2 there just like any other honda keep changing that oil and get everything checked once a year she'll be running forever. I've heard to watch out for 04' and 00' but have never really heard of anything actually happening, best bet get what you can afford and what feels comfortable personally I like the 03'. Take ur time if you have a lot of choices and feel out the differences it will pay off in the end. Good luck 
08-23-2008, 07:11 AM
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Based on your priorities I would say 03 S2000.
Simple.
It will be the least expensive and still have the initial bugs worked out thanks to little things like oil jet bolts (added half-way thru 02), etc. The glass rear window is a nice plus as well. AP2s are great also, but I don't think enough improvements (changes might be a better choice of words) were made to justify the cost in your case. The S is about as reliable as you can get in this class and repairs, when they do occur, will cost less than half that of the Porsche with the supply of used parts out there.
Regarding maintenance, yes, costs are very reasonable for this class. You should expect a little more frequency on fluids, I do diff and trans every 10k because it takes and hour and a few quarts. Oil changes may run a little more because OEM filters are the way to go and the capacity is high for a Honda. At least there will be no timing belt costs as the S uses a chain, so call it a wash with the Civic. Clutch depends on your technique. You really want to do the work yourself. Partly cost, partly simplicity, and partly that you can't always trust a tech (Slows2k being one of the exceptions, of course) to tighten a bolt or a filter. Your biggest cost will be tires. There is little point in buying this car if you are not going to put good rubber on it. Good rubber wears and is expensive. Expect about 10-12k from the rears and 15-18k from the fronts depending on driving style.
As for over-revs, you can check this by looking for cracked retainers and sunken keepers by pulling the valve cover. Sometimes it can be tough to spot. If you are really serious, do not purchase unless you can get a compression and leakdown done before. Really, leakdown and visual inspection are all the insurance you can expect. If a valve drops, yes, the motor is toast. You could also run an oil sample by Blackstone to check for contaminants that may indicate low-oil damage but good luck getting a seller to comply. Yes, if the car has and will be cared for, it will easily go 100k plus.
The S is great, and for many of us, the best drivers car we can afford to buy and maintain. Still, a Porsche is a Porsche, and will always have something the S never will. In your case, from what I can tell, this is not something you value enough to empty your wallet over.
Best of luck.
Simple.
It will be the least expensive and still have the initial bugs worked out thanks to little things like oil jet bolts (added half-way thru 02), etc. The glass rear window is a nice plus as well. AP2s are great also, but I don't think enough improvements (changes might be a better choice of words) were made to justify the cost in your case. The S is about as reliable as you can get in this class and repairs, when they do occur, will cost less than half that of the Porsche with the supply of used parts out there.
Regarding maintenance, yes, costs are very reasonable for this class. You should expect a little more frequency on fluids, I do diff and trans every 10k because it takes and hour and a few quarts. Oil changes may run a little more because OEM filters are the way to go and the capacity is high for a Honda. At least there will be no timing belt costs as the S uses a chain, so call it a wash with the Civic. Clutch depends on your technique. You really want to do the work yourself. Partly cost, partly simplicity, and partly that you can't always trust a tech (Slows2k being one of the exceptions, of course) to tighten a bolt or a filter. Your biggest cost will be tires. There is little point in buying this car if you are not going to put good rubber on it. Good rubber wears and is expensive. Expect about 10-12k from the rears and 15-18k from the fronts depending on driving style.
As for over-revs, you can check this by looking for cracked retainers and sunken keepers by pulling the valve cover. Sometimes it can be tough to spot. If you are really serious, do not purchase unless you can get a compression and leakdown done before. Really, leakdown and visual inspection are all the insurance you can expect. If a valve drops, yes, the motor is toast. You could also run an oil sample by Blackstone to check for contaminants that may indicate low-oil damage but good luck getting a seller to comply. Yes, if the car has and will be cared for, it will easily go 100k plus.
The S is great, and for many of us, the best drivers car we can afford to buy and maintain. Still, a Porsche is a Porsche, and will always have something the S never will. In your case, from what I can tell, this is not something you value enough to empty your wallet over.
Best of luck.
08-23-2008, 08:25 PM
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believe me, I do kind of like the porsche image - but at the same time - I don't want to pay to play. I can get a nice used boxster for about 15k, but it would be older - like a 2000 - and not an S model - a base instead. they are arated at 217hp. they have less peak hp than the s2k but more torque..so in some ways it feels faster.
bone stock the boxster sounds TONS better. you can put exhaust on the s2k and it sounds good, but it's different. a souped up s2k might - to some people - look ricey. most guys don't mod boxsters.
if i got an ap1, i might update my wheels/tires. i'd like to go a bit larger, unless it ruins balance, performance. the last boxster i test drove had 18s and a factory upgraded suspension - it was literally on rails.. OMFG.... better handling than the 2008 s2k i test drove at the dealer. seriously. to be fair - you'd need to get an s2k with coilovers and 18s with great tires to make a fair comparison..this car had 18s and stiff stiff stiff suspension....
i want something i can take out on the weekend, and flog the crap out of, drive ot work on friday and then put int eh garage and not touch it for two weeks...do only routine maintenance and enjoy it for years. i don't wan to worry about motors blowing up or other repairs creeping up on me costing me $$$$.
i figure i can find a nice used one...like an 03 or something...and then jus fix it up here and there. shocks, springs, intake, ehxaust, wheels.. and eventually have a really really nice weekend toy. something that i only drive once in a while. i have a brand new MDX for the family / kids, and I have an older volvo to daily drive to work...and for around town errands.... my DD is boring and dull...but relaible and CHEAP/PAID off.. i wnat something to rev the stink otu of and put a smile on my fac.e
another car i consdiered is the rx8. i kind of like the feel/interior of the rx8...love the tach...shiter is cool..and rotary is neat..but not as fast..and not as raw.
i have test driven a new one, but gotta go try an ap1
bone stock the boxster sounds TONS better. you can put exhaust on the s2k and it sounds good, but it's different. a souped up s2k might - to some people - look ricey. most guys don't mod boxsters.
if i got an ap1, i might update my wheels/tires. i'd like to go a bit larger, unless it ruins balance, performance. the last boxster i test drove had 18s and a factory upgraded suspension - it was literally on rails.. OMFG.... better handling than the 2008 s2k i test drove at the dealer. seriously. to be fair - you'd need to get an s2k with coilovers and 18s with great tires to make a fair comparison..this car had 18s and stiff stiff stiff suspension....
i want something i can take out on the weekend, and flog the crap out of, drive ot work on friday and then put int eh garage and not touch it for two weeks...do only routine maintenance and enjoy it for years. i don't wan to worry about motors blowing up or other repairs creeping up on me costing me $$$$.
i figure i can find a nice used one...like an 03 or something...and then jus fix it up here and there. shocks, springs, intake, ehxaust, wheels.. and eventually have a really really nice weekend toy. something that i only drive once in a while. i have a brand new MDX for the family / kids, and I have an older volvo to daily drive to work...and for around town errands.... my DD is boring and dull...but relaible and CHEAP/PAID off.. i wnat something to rev the stink otu of and put a smile on my fac.e
another car i consdiered is the rx8. i kind of like the feel/interior of the rx8...love the tach...shiter is cool..and rotary is neat..but not as fast..and not as raw.
i have test driven a new one, but gotta go try an ap1
08-23-2008, 08:39 PM
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As a Porsche and S2000 owner, I would have to say: get the S2000. I flog the crap out of the S, and it keeps taking it... I don't/would not do that to the porsche. I drive the porsche because it provides a different feel/enjoyment while driving... when I want to "push the limits," I take the S. Yes, the Porsche feels more like it's "on rails," but the S can certainly hold its own around the twisties.
If you're concerned about torque though, get an AP2. I haven't checked prices lately, but I'm sure you can get into an '04 for not a huge price increase over '03s.
If you're concerned about torque though, get an AP2. I haven't checked prices lately, but I'm sure you can get into an '04 for not a huge price increase over '03s.
08-23-2008, 09:47 PM
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Dude its a honda, it will last you forever 
And the s2k doesnt really have any major problems. And maintenance is relatively cheap compared to a porsche. I would recommend an AP2 for more low end torque and you said you wanted bigger wheels. An 04 or 05 can be had for less than 20,000 in some places. If you want to not spend as much money as possible then I dont know why your even considering the porsche or an rx8.
And the s2k doesnt really have any major problems. And maintenance is relatively cheap compared to a porsche. I would recommend an AP2 for more low end torque and you said you wanted bigger wheels. An 04 or 05 can be had for less than 20,000 in some places. If you want to not spend as much money as possible then I dont know why your even considering the porsche or an rx8.
08-23-2008, 10:19 PM
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have you driven the porsche? it's so frickin cool.
the sound alone is intoxicating.
but the s2k is nice too. if money were no object and i wanted a roadster, i'd get the boxster S.
for a regular guy, with bills, wife/kids - something i want to drive and enjoy, and not spend my life savings on.. the s2k is probably the way to go
the sound alone is intoxicating.
but the s2k is nice too. if money were no object and i wanted a roadster, i'd get the boxster S.
for a regular guy, with bills, wife/kids - something i want to drive and enjoy, and not spend my life savings on.. the s2k is probably the way to go
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08-24-2008, 01:41 AM
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It sounds like you have a great plan and are well informed. I think the S+mods will give you everything you are after. A few other things to consider from another post a while back.
Few suggestions
- drive or at least ride in another S, the car is loud in some ways, you need to know what passes for normal
- check the top inside and out for wear
- check every body panel for a VIN sticker, make sure they match (no replaced parts), the engine may have a different VIN, this is not unusual
- check under front and rear for curb rash, one I looked at actually had rear sub-frame damage from someone backing it onto a curb
- check A-arm brackets https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...&#entry1446324
- check oil level and condition and for any leaks
- listen on startup, ticking and light clatter is usually valvetrain or injectors-normal, knocking could be a scuffed bore-not normal
- make sure clutch holds strong and grabs early
- shifts without grinds, particularly 1-2
- goes into 5-6 easily when warm, transmission can be a little stiff for first 15-30 min.
- do gentle figure eights in open lot to check diff for clunking
- getting a compression and leakdown check is a very good idea, if the owner will allow for it
The big three $$ are engine, trans, diff. These are some things you can do to check them.
little things that can tell you what kind of owner
- matching set of tires front and rear, appropriate size
- casually ask them how long the OEM tires lasted, I got about 18k out of the fronts,12k out of the rear
- do they do their own maintenance, what intervals, what fluids (most common: trans- Honda MTF or GM Synchromesh, diff - LE607,Mobil 1 Gear), is the oil filter Honda OEM
- condition of brake and clutch fluid (dark is bad, light or almost clear is good)
- condition of top seals (lightly greased)
- ask them about the power steering fluid (little joke, the S has electric assist, their answer might tell you a few things)
things I would do as soon as I bring it home
- pull valve cover and inspect retainers
- maybe send an oil sample off to Blackstone for an oil analysis
- have that compression test if you have not yet
- get a good alignment on it
- change all fluids and filters unless you have no doubt on their condition
- check oil often, some years drink a bit
- autocross!!
- drive or at least ride in another S, the car is loud in some ways, you need to know what passes for normal
- check the top inside and out for wear
- check every body panel for a VIN sticker, make sure they match (no replaced parts), the engine may have a different VIN, this is not unusual
- check under front and rear for curb rash, one I looked at actually had rear sub-frame damage from someone backing it onto a curb
- check A-arm brackets https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.ph...&#entry1446324
- check oil level and condition and for any leaks
- listen on startup, ticking and light clatter is usually valvetrain or injectors-normal, knocking could be a scuffed bore-not normal
- make sure clutch holds strong and grabs early
- shifts without grinds, particularly 1-2
- goes into 5-6 easily when warm, transmission can be a little stiff for first 15-30 min.
- do gentle figure eights in open lot to check diff for clunking
- getting a compression and leakdown check is a very good idea, if the owner will allow for it
The big three $$ are engine, trans, diff. These are some things you can do to check them.
little things that can tell you what kind of owner
- matching set of tires front and rear, appropriate size
- casually ask them how long the OEM tires lasted, I got about 18k out of the fronts,12k out of the rear
- do they do their own maintenance, what intervals, what fluids (most common: trans- Honda MTF or GM Synchromesh, diff - LE607,Mobil 1 Gear), is the oil filter Honda OEM
- condition of brake and clutch fluid (dark is bad, light or almost clear is good)
- condition of top seals (lightly greased)
- ask them about the power steering fluid (little joke, the S has electric assist, their answer might tell you a few things)
things I would do as soon as I bring it home
- pull valve cover and inspect retainers
- maybe send an oil sample off to Blackstone for an oil analysis
- have that compression test if you have not yet
- get a good alignment on it
- change all fluids and filters unless you have no doubt on their condition
- check oil often, some years drink a bit
- autocross!!
08-24-2008, 03:29 AM
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Relax, it was not a snobbish statement. Honda has a certain feel in the cars it has produced, from the CRX to the Odyssey. It appeals to and is valued by certain people, myself included. Porsche is no different. Or BMW and Cadillac. If you want to compare numbers, yes, the cars are very similar. Go beyond that and you will find they are cut from different cloth.
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