Someday2k

Thanks man, I'll check it out.

ZDan

In serious performance driving (best reserved for the track!) you will be hard on the brakes approaching the corner, trailing off the brakes as you enter the corner, smoothly trading braking for cornering, then you will smoothly get off the brakes and onto the gas near the apex, and on the gas all they way out.

For me, in "speedy" driving at 7/10ths on curvy non-residential roads, I keep speeds low enough that I can just lift instead of using the brakes entering most corners. In any case, you must enter the corner slowly enough that once you begin to get on the gas about 1/3 into the corner, that you won't ever have to LIFT off the gas throughout the rest of the corner.

All of this applies to any car, it's just that the AP1's wonky suspension geometry is particularly punishing of lifting off the gas mid-corner. And there is zero benefit to this feature even for advanced drivers. It's just a dumb gimmick that didn't work (just as it didn't for cars preceding the s2000).

Someday2k

Even with the heel/toe method you are still lifting off the throttle. The whole process of taking your foot off the gas, applying the brake, disengaging the clutch, throttle matching and shifting gears, and reengaging the clutch is a "lifted throttle" scenario. You aren't driving the rear wheels and they should be toeing out on a AP1.

The only difference between the heel/toe method and downshifting normally is you don't throttle match but it doesn't make a hill of beans difference to how the suspension responds because the clutch is disengaged when you are throttle matching.

Maybe the real difference is when you reengage the clutch. You aren't putting that load on your drive train when you throttle match and reengage the clutch. So, the road isn't driving the rear tires to speed the engine back up when you reengage the clutch. I would imagine that the road driving the rear tires to speed the engine up causes them to toe out and create oversteer. You avoid that when you throttle match. Do you guys agree?

rob-2

It drives perfectly fine if you know how to drive.

ZDan

IMO it is a drawback to the AP1 worth mentioning to the prospective buyer. The only significant one as far as I'm concerned, but not enough to make me prefer the AP2. I had the opportunity to drive a track-prepped AP1 with an AP2 rear subframe swapped in (corrects the rear toe curve) at the track a couple of weeks ago, and got the impression that I could hustle it around a lot more efficiently near/slightly-beyond the limits without the rear toe monkey motion going on. It felt a lot more like other rwd cars I've driven at the track that allow you to hang the back end out as much or as little as you please, all day long. The stock AP1 geometry is less encouraging of such antics...

RMurphy

The reason you don't get it is because you have the order of the operations wrong. It's brake first, then turn. Not turn and brake. The driver should have the majority of braking completed *before* turn-in, easing off the brake at turn-in, and begin feeding back on the throttle about the apex point and increasing throttle as you unwind the wheel. Slow In Fast Out.

Consider taking a performance driving school or attending an HPDE day which includes the option of instructors for noobs. They teach those skills there. You can discuss all of this until you are blue in the face but it is all just talk. You have to go *do* this on a track to fully comprehend it.

thanasis11

I love the way my AP1 handles. I dont know what people are talking about but its not twitchy at all.

Drive smooth and its very rewarding

jeffbrig

As a beginner, you'll actually find it easier to over-brake before turn in, and the car will feel better turning if you're lightly on the gas, increasing throttle beyond the apex. At some tracks there are turns where it's even taught to be on the throttle to settle the car (turn 10 at homestead, for example). It's all about weight transfer - you need weight on the tires to generate grip.

If you brake late, carry too much speed into the turn, and attempt normal turn in while still trailing on the brakes, the rear end will step out. Period. Been there, done that - on the track. This isn't S2000 or AP1 specific - although the geometry may certainly help. But when you're going to fast to make the turn, AND still trail braking, the back end is light and will lose traction before the front. Physics is a bitch.

However, I still take issue with the term "snap" oversteer. This car isn't scary, and it's not going to bite you (unless you're an absolute idiot with what you ask it to do). Even when I've had the car sideways (again, on the track), I never felt out of control, and was surprisingly easy to catch and steer. And I'm a complete track novice - did my first 2 days at Homestead last month.

I think the problem is that the uninitiated don't take their time working up to exploring the car's limits. Instead they ask it to defy the laws of physics, and somehow seem surprised by the result.

BlakeNFR

I have to agree with you here.

devildust

AP2 Rear sway bar and done. makes the car much more predictable when pushed to the limit.