ZDan

Already covered, but think of it this way: OVERsteer is when the car rotates MORE than you want. UNDERsteer is when it plows straight ahead. Doesn't that make sense?

You want rear toe to be consistent throughout travel. Multiple times Japanese automakers have tried gimmicky rear toe change with bump and/or with lateral load (2nd gen RX-7, 1st-gen NSX, 1st iteration of 2nd-gen MR2) and it has NEVER WORKED! Keeping rear toe the same throughout travel gives consistent and predictable handling. Having rear toe change on you as you get on/off the gas or brakes is not good... The one handling gripe I have about my AP1. It is drive-around-able, but not as sweet and linear-handling as similar cars that don't have this "feature".

Someday2k

Okay, thanks for setting me straight. I've got it backwards. So, basically, going hard into a turn the car tends to oversteer (get loose) because you are loading the front wheels enabling them to grip more, and unloading the rears causing them to toe out which is fine with me. I'd rather be loose than tight. But, regardless, it's apparently not a huge deal and it's just something I'd have to get used to.

So, basically what I'm hearig is the AP1 kicks like a banshee over 7000 rpm and gets loose under hard cornering if you lift off the gas. Okay, now I understand why it's twitchy and raw...and sounds like a heck of a lot of fun. Honda tamed all of that with the AP2 suspension and engine tweaks and gave the car more low end torque. So, that's the major difference between the performance of the AP1 and the AP2. Got it.

Someday2k

Thanks Dan.

ZDan

It is not ideal. I like a relatively "oversteery" (or rather not too understeery) setup as well, but the toe thing is different. The handling characteristics of the car CHANGE as the car turns in and rolls, and as you get on/off the gas or brakes. This kinda sucks. In my experience, this causes you to lose more time when you have the back end dancing around vs. other cars that have more consistent rear toe. It acts more like a semi-trailing-arm setup, where when you begin to slide the rear, it immediately wants to slide more. By the time you get it back, you've lost more time.

The effect is reduced with stiffer springs/dampers/sways, as there is less vertical movement of the rears under the same conditions. Stock suspension is worst-case.

Switchblade

Test drive both cars. You can't go wrong with any year.


FWIW, I've had my AP1 for 4 years now. Both the car and I are still in one piece.

s2ka

00-01 cars had an extremely stiff rear sway bar. Swap it with a 02-09 rear bar and it gives you less oversteer and better compliance over bumps while cornering.

Another major factor is tires. A lot of the early guys who spun their cars (and gave the AP1 a bad reputation) were riding on worn out rear tires or using the wrong tires. The original 225/50/16 S-02 rear tires were actually more like 245. Swap out the OEM with another 225/50/16 and you've instantly lost rear grip. Same with the fronts. The 205/55/16 S-02 front tires were more like 195 or even 185. Swap out the OEM with another 205 and you've increased your front grip, which leads to oversteer.

The whole bumpsteer toe-change issue is overrated. A few minor changes and some good tires and the AP1 is fine.

Ryuu

a lotus super 7, is / was raw... an ap1 has a radio and air conditioning, power windows, give me a break... the Ap1, is ffffffing awesome... drive the chit out of it... I have an 01... the assend will come around faster then you can imagine if you let it.. learn the car.. drive the road or the track.. drive the conditions... gone through tires learning how it likes to be driven..it's one of those kind of cars.. from 02 on til 09 they played with different components with suspension and wheel tire choices.. til they nearly went back to 01 specs for the CR...

every owner / driver in here has their idea of what they want out of this car.. find out what it is you want first, then design which model you want to work with and build from there..

Danwolski

This.

civdaddy

ok...Honda designed the ap1 to have a change in rear toe when the rear end is loaded and unloaded. But why? Everyone on this forum says it has NO performance advantage at all. There has to be a reason why they did this..

SpoiledAP1

Here's an idea, maybe put some AP2 wheels on it to increase the amount of rubber on the ground and don't drive like an imbecile. It's a very fun car as long as you dont lift in the corner, and learn the car before your try to push it hard. (autoX reccomended, and it's fun too!) but at the end of the day, test drive both.