I have to second both your opinions. No matter what product or field you are in, you always have to prove the validity of your product. It is not up to the consumer.
Otherwise there would be no consumer reports, no JD POWER, no AAA 5 star ratings. Everyone would just publish that their product is A+++ and have no facts to back it up.

The exhaust example is perfect.

 

slimjim8201 ... I understand your point however I for one simply wouldn't feel qualified to make accurate comment on a product that I have never tried.

Many people are cautious by nature and rightly so however in regards to particular products you will find overwhelmingly positive (or negative) feedback on this board from hundreds, if not thousands, of owners (on all sorts of products) that can not be discounted.

As for Whiteline products in particular you will find all the technical information you desire on their complete range here...

http://www.whiteline.com.au/

Regarding other manufacturer's products...as mentioned, take the time to do some research. S2Ki is a resource providing a vast wealth of information and real world data from thousands of owners.

"The empiricist... thinks he believes only what he sees, but he is much better at believing than at seeing."

I didn't make that up.

 

I think you're taking it a bit too seriously. If you had given me time to reply before posting your insult you would see that I have provided a link (above) to all the manufacturer's tech specs. :)

If you had read my post in it's proper context you would also see that I was obviously responding to a statement about x-braces in general from a board member and user POV. How is it possible to provide technical details on all the vendor's products?

 

Are you saying that buyers that purchase the braces don't need the proof, but rather they just need to believe that the brace is doing something?

Not to start an issue, but I figured that a sponsor would know everything about the product.

I also understand your point about the large amount of people that are happy with their x-brace purchase, but that really doesnt mean anything to me. Seat of the pants tests mean nothing. Everyones car is different and everyone's perception is different. I still want numbers.

 

then why don't you go ahead install an X-brace on an S2000 Frame, and use big machines to twist it and find the breaking points with and without it. Nobody is going to have NUMBERS or hard DATA on X-brace chassis stiffness, do you see numbers on the chassis stiffness improvement with strutbars? And even rollcages for that matter.

There is an implied increase in chassis stiffness, one in which owners feel. It is only something that is felt by owners, perhaps the only numbers that are possible, easy, and could be readily available to compare are track times. Hp and torque you can get numbers from, weight reduction you can get numbers from, spring rates have numbers, coolant tempertures and mods have numbers, chassis stiffness modifications typically don't have numbers, people don't test the torsion qualities of the chassis to their limits. If you don't want to buy one then don't. I really don't think the economy cares where you spend your measly 200 dollars.

Again I think you got the main point of my post...no numbers

 

The chassis does not need to be destroyed to perform a test. Far from it.

Bullshit. The numbers aren't readily published (I am assuming because zero enginering went into the majority of the brace designs or the increases are so minimal that advertising them would hurt sales). They are out there though, and they can be obtained.

A placebo paperweight...no more, no less. Unless of course someone can show me some data. I am not holding my breath...

 

Don't hold your breath, I'll keep my X-Brace...and we can both be happy. You obviously take a lot to convince. If the opinions of thousands is not enough to sway you, then I'll no longer waste my time

 

So if thousands of people enjoy smoking crack, I should too?

Hmm time to go buy a rock I guess.

 

I read your post in the only context that was available, the same context that multiple people read it in.

If you would have stated "I will post again in a few hours with a link to where you can find some information" I would not have replied, however, you didn't. I guess I was supposed to read your mind somehow instead?

As for the whiteline site, I went there, went under "Your Car" and selected Honda and don't see any S2000 products so I'm not really sure how that will help me or anyone else.

And yes, I would expect you to be able to provide some sort of data to prove that a product works. This is easy with intakes, exhausts, etc. You do have to depend on the manufacturer to provide this information generally. Perhaps you can ask Whiteline for that information so you can provide it in the future.

And it wasn't an insult. That simply was an extremely retarded statement. At least, it wasn't intended to offend.. I'm just blunt.