Wouldn't that depend on how you defined "bad attitude." In the context where I used it, it meant one who isn't paying attention to his driving, so I don't think a good driver could have that particular kind of "bad attitude." Define it differently and it might apply to any of us. I tend to cop a bad attitude when either I or my car aren't performing the way I expect.

 

Well I certainly was not alluding to challenging one self on the road or the mall parking lot full of shoppers.

But you go to a track, read a book and don't challenge yourself, don't ever spin out once, twice, three times so you learn to control it then anticipate it until you can catch it every time, and see how quickly you become "expert". If your definition of expert is someone who has never had a moment, never spun out or ran off, then I guess there are no experts eh? Even F1 drivers spin out and crash. Is it their fault? Unless hardware failed, most like yes. We are humans and not perfect. We will make mistakes, have lapses of judgment etc.

But experiencing something is one of the best ways to learn from it - better than reading it in a book. Nothing beats seat time (and all it entails - spins, offs, ec.) unless something has changed in the world of performance driving.

Your definition of "sucky drivers" sounds more like "stupid humans" to me. What skill set other than basic driving do you need to drive in a mall? I can be a sucky driver but very responsible and never endanger anyone or myself. I challenge myself (race track / AutoX)but just can't get it right. That is what a sucky driver is to me - not one that is irresponsible and downright dangerous. Those are just stupid and irresponsible.

 

I couldn't disagree with you more. Reading books and watching videos alone will never make you a "non sucky" driver. Seat time, seat time, seat time. And seat time sometimes includes bush (off) times, spin times, bump times. It is all part of the learning. I trust someone to teach me to drive who has learned to control a spin through experience more than one who has learned it from a video. Sorry.

If you all think I am advocating mad driving on the street or track, I am not. I just had a problem with one definition of "suck driver".

 

So if a guy tries something and screws up (I am at the track - not on the road), he is a clown now? The first time you got on a bike and fell, you were a clown or just a kid learning to ride a bike?

If someone is "clowning" around on the street or track, then yes, call them a clown. But if a guy is trying his best to get a handle on learning to performance drive, and runs into trouble, why is he a "clown"? How will he ever get to the "expert" stage without challenging himself to do something new?

Please, let me know this well kept secret so I can save myself some grief in the future and never spin my car on the way to becoming an "expert".

 

i learned how to handle a car more in just my first season of autocross then i the entire time i have had my license.
most important thing i learned is why you DON'T shift at mid-corner.

 

Uh, wasn't this spin out on the street? I don't think the street is the place to learn how to performance drive.

 

yes but the replies have gone slightly off topic.

 

Yeah, sure. But you can do lap after lap after lap and learn nothing, or you can have an instructor in the car and intensively learn a lot -- without crashing. Your choice.

When I was learning mountaineering, one of our instructors said, "Climbers aren't fallers". Meaning that even though you can't learn climbing by sitting on the couch, you need to not kill yourself either. I'll extend this: "drivers aren't crashers". Most of the best track drivers I know have crashed a car -- once. Maybe. That doesn't mean they don't make mistakes. It means they pick and choose when to try things out, and when they do make mistakes they almost always correct them before they crash.

Racing is different, because when racing EVERYBODY can drive up to 95% of the limit. So if you want to win, you have to push even harder, and nobody can do that perfectly. And even then, if you crash a lot of race cars you a) don't win races and b) are soon looking for a new job.

 

They have that same thing on a big wall of quotes at the driver/vehicle registration place here. I found it comically accurate

 

I had a psych professor in college that started one of his classes by asking the kids ...

"Why is it that everyone who drives slower than you is a fool,
while everyone who drives faster than you is an idiot."

LOL, guess I'm more likely to be an idiot than a fool, but what's the difference, really?

FWIW, Mike is right. There is no substitute for experience, but not all experience is created equal. Experience with a good tutor or mentor is the smart way to learn most things, and practice is the way to perfect that which is learned.