So what's the big deal with vtec?
05-14-2008, 06:16 AM
#1
Thread Starter
So what's the big deal with vtec?
So I've seen a lot of "I hit VTEC!" or "I showed them VTEC!" or "VTEC this", "VTEC that!"
It all seems a bit much like over zealous brand enthusiasm on a feature that's not very unique or the quintessential piece behind the s2k's success. Don't get me wrong, I'm a proud owner of a my01 and have loved it since day one, and I appreciate the amazing technical engineering behind the f20c's design, but I just don't understand all the hype that surrounds vtec. The s2000 is far more than just it's powerplant with the vtec feature.
Perhaps vtec was unique in its first conception, but the same concept of variable valve timing is available in other brands such as MIVEC from Mitsubishi, VVTL-i from Toyota, VarioCam Plus from Porsche, VVL from Nissan, etc. We can argue the various efficiencies and implementations of the other brands, but that would just be slicing hairs.
Vtec is just really a description for the system of a camshaft that goes between two modes/profiles: economy and performance. In the lower rpms, the valve lift, duration is minimal allowing smaller amounts of air/fuel to enter/exit the engine, when the ECU reads higher load and higher rpms, a solenoid triggers the camshaft to shift to another profile which is just allowing more air/fuel to enter the cylinder chambers. It's really an obvious design feature that would've been implemented by someone designing engines to take advantage of the difference in the optimal air/fuel volumes over the rpm delta.
Here are the reasons I love the s2k:
-It's a convertible.
-The convertible is the fastest opening/closing compared to z4/porsche (top gear)
-The F20c powerplant is an amazing feat of engineering. 11:1 compression, 9k rpms.
-The beautiful body curves
-Power to weight ratio
-Can do 1G on a 200ft slalom laterally stock (hearsay, but probably somewhere)
-Interior having everything at your figertips
-The looks it gets you
-The fun driving experience
-Awesome gearing
-Rear wheel drive
-~50/50 weight distribution
-Awesome track car
And I could go on... I'm either not seeing this vtec bandwagon, or to be frank, the vtec enthusiasm is way over hyped.
It all seems a bit much like over zealous brand enthusiasm on a feature that's not very unique or the quintessential piece behind the s2k's success. Don't get me wrong, I'm a proud owner of a my01 and have loved it since day one, and I appreciate the amazing technical engineering behind the f20c's design, but I just don't understand all the hype that surrounds vtec. The s2000 is far more than just it's powerplant with the vtec feature.
Perhaps vtec was unique in its first conception, but the same concept of variable valve timing is available in other brands such as MIVEC from Mitsubishi, VVTL-i from Toyota, VarioCam Plus from Porsche, VVL from Nissan, etc. We can argue the various efficiencies and implementations of the other brands, but that would just be slicing hairs.
Vtec is just really a description for the system of a camshaft that goes between two modes/profiles: economy and performance. In the lower rpms, the valve lift, duration is minimal allowing smaller amounts of air/fuel to enter/exit the engine, when the ECU reads higher load and higher rpms, a solenoid triggers the camshaft to shift to another profile which is just allowing more air/fuel to enter the cylinder chambers. It's really an obvious design feature that would've been implemented by someone designing engines to take advantage of the difference in the optimal air/fuel volumes over the rpm delta.
Here are the reasons I love the s2k:
-It's a convertible.
-The convertible is the fastest opening/closing compared to z4/porsche (top gear)
-The F20c powerplant is an amazing feat of engineering. 11:1 compression, 9k rpms.
-The beautiful body curves
-Power to weight ratio
-Can do 1G on a 200ft slalom laterally stock (hearsay, but probably somewhere)
-Interior having everything at your figertips
-The looks it gets you
-The fun driving experience
-Awesome gearing
-Rear wheel drive
-~50/50 weight distribution
-Awesome track car
And I could go on... I'm either not seeing this vtec bandwagon, or to be frank, the vtec enthusiasm is way over hyped.
05-14-2008, 06:44 AM
#3
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I used to always hate it when someone would mention their VTEC "kicking in", like it's a turbo or something. Of course, this was usually on 125hp civics. And then I bought the S2000. And as you know there is a noticable difference when it switchs to VTEC. At least on my car. And I still hate to say the "VTEC kicked in". Can it be overhyped? Of course. It's basically just variable valve timing. But, it is what gives this car the performance it has. Is it unique? Not anymore. But, it's still totally awesome!
05-14-2008, 06:52 AM
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"Here are the reasons I love the s2k:
-It's a convertible.
-The convertible is the fastest opening/closing compared to z4/porsche (top gear)
-The F20c powerplant is an amazing feat of engineering. 11:1 compression, 9k rpms.
-The beautiful body curves
-Power to weight ratio
-Can do 1G on a 200ft slalom laterally stock (hearsay, but probably somewhere)
-Interior having everything at your figertips
-The looks it gets you
-The fun driving experience
-Awesome gearing
-Rear wheel drive
-~50/50 weight distribution
-Awesome track car
"
Whats the big deal with any of those features ? Lots of cars have similar or better.
-It's a convertible.
-The convertible is the fastest opening/closing compared to z4/porsche (top gear)
-The F20c powerplant is an amazing feat of engineering. 11:1 compression, 9k rpms.
-The beautiful body curves
-Power to weight ratio
-Can do 1G on a 200ft slalom laterally stock (hearsay, but probably somewhere)
-Interior having everything at your figertips
-The looks it gets you
-The fun driving experience
-Awesome gearing
-Rear wheel drive
-~50/50 weight distribution
-Awesome track car
"
Whats the big deal with any of those features ? Lots of cars have similar or better.
05-14-2008, 07:00 AM
#6
Registered User
Your feeling probably stems from the fact that everyone and their mother has 'vtec'. Theres many versions... some are simply for improved economy... not peak performance, but your still find someone to rav about it. Such is life. vtec in the S is pretty strong since the engine is build for performance, so its such a bad thing to love it. Unfortunately the term vtec is shared with many civics making less than 150hp, so to the average person theres no difference.
The funny part is the harsh vtec transition should be tuned out for best performance. After I had my h22 tuned in my prelude I had some people ask 'did they turn off your vtec?' haha. In the car, you felt nothing except increasing pull, and could only hear it over the exhaust if you really paid attention.
The funny part is the harsh vtec transition should be tuned out for best performance. After I had my h22 tuned in my prelude I had some people ask 'did they turn off your vtec?' haha. In the car, you felt nothing except increasing pull, and could only hear it over the exhaust if you really paid attention.
05-14-2008, 07:12 AM
#7
Thread Starter
I mean my butt dyno can feel the extra tad bit of an extra push when the valve timing changes, but yea, I'm basically saying I hate when people say "oooOooOOohhh.. vtec!" or imply that vtec kicks everyone's ass.
As far as vtec being the reason for the performance the f20c has, I'd have to disagree. The compression and the airflow that the head design allows for would have to be far greater contributing components of the f20c's performance aspects rather than vtec.
Remember all vtec is doing is either letting less or more air/fuel to enter. In this regard, I'd argue that it would've been possible to create a 2.0 liter power plant without vtec that could push out 240hp, but arguing hypotheticals is really moot.
Perhaps it could be argued that vtec plays a part in the horsepower curve, but nonetheless, i'd argue that it's not as significant. Perhaps an engine designer could chime in. heh.
As far as vtec being the reason for the performance the f20c has, I'd have to disagree. The compression and the airflow that the head design allows for would have to be far greater contributing components of the f20c's performance aspects rather than vtec.
Remember all vtec is doing is either letting less or more air/fuel to enter. In this regard, I'd argue that it would've been possible to create a 2.0 liter power plant without vtec that could push out 240hp, but arguing hypotheticals is really moot.
Perhaps it could be argued that vtec plays a part in the horsepower curve, but nonetheless, i'd argue that it's not as significant. Perhaps an engine designer could chime in. heh.
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05-14-2008, 07:19 AM
#8
Thread Starter
marks_lude, I completely agree. Having a harsh transition only interrupts the acceleration and isn't the best thing for acceleration. Though at the sub ~200hp level that harsh transition is a bit more negligible than these 200-400 in a 1k rpm jump.
Funny thing is, the whole argument for Naturally aspirated engines or super charged engines is the smooth hp and torque curve. Technically vtec goes against that mindset with the sudden jump in power, but like I said before in a sub 200hp level, 10-20hp power spikes are fairly negligible under dry road conditions.
Funny thing is, the whole argument for Naturally aspirated engines or super charged engines is the smooth hp and torque curve. Technically vtec goes against that mindset with the sudden jump in power, but like I said before in a sub 200hp level, 10-20hp power spikes are fairly negligible under dry road conditions.
05-14-2008, 07:27 AM
#9
Thread Starter
I can see where the non-experience of vtec in a 150hp B series engine then going to the f20c would have a huge difference in perception for really loving vtec. I guess it's almost synonymous with the feeling of turbo rush when the turbo kick in and you feel like you're being slammed beneath your seat.
The vtec transition in our s2k's aren't as grandiose as feeling of going from 0lbs of boost to 7-15lbs in about 0-2 seconds time.
Honda with their iVTEC in their K series engines basically "fixed" the vtec transition by introducing a continuously variable timing, so the transition is very subtle throughout the rpm range...
The vtec transition in our s2k's aren't as grandiose as feeling of going from 0lbs of boost to 7-15lbs in about 0-2 seconds time.
Honda with their iVTEC in their K series engines basically "fixed" the vtec transition by introducing a continuously variable timing, so the transition is very subtle throughout the rpm range...