Snap oversteer
10-11-2016, 02:38 PM
#171
I would say that snap oversteer is a thing if you make a mistake. If you do something you shouldn't, it will bite, and the rear end of the car is not as progressive or forgiving as many others. I don't know if I'd call it a "flaw" per se, but it takes more talent and commitment to drive fast and not spin than with many other cars. It is more like a kart in that it requires faster reactions if you do want to get it loose.
10-11-2016, 05:08 PM
#172
Former Moderator
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQRmYMlmdqM
and this too:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZw7ZnxWKjs
If you want to do track days, check out the Upstate NY sub-forum. We have a bunch of club racers and HPDE junkies on there. We also make an annual trip for a 2 day event at Watkins Glen in July.
10-11-2016, 08:20 PM
#173
Originally Posted by rpg51' timestamp='1476199138' post='24081490
Can I take my essentially stock S2k to an autocross event as a rank beginner and will I be tolerated? Do they run these events for rank beginners? If so, maybe I'll convince a buddy or two to bring their roadsters to an autocross with me.
When I first got an S2k, knowing about its somewhat snappy handling, the first thing I did was take it to an autocross. I was all over the place until I reinforced some good habits in my mind (mainly don't lift the throttle mid-corner!).
Autocrosses have a Novice/Beginner class, and usually about 1/4-1/3 of everyone there is in that class. You won't be alone and there is nothing to worry about!
I feel like all this debate makes a simple topic so complicated. Snap oversteer is not a thing on this car. Bad line improper throttle or break application is. If you want to learn how to drive the car fast take it to the track. Any time I've ever had an issue in the S2 thousand it's because I did something wrong.
Anyone who experiences that is pushing the car. It's not unlike complaining a high HP car steps out if you get on throttle too soon.
10-12-2016, 02:22 AM
#174
Thanks for those links. Fascinating stuff.
10-12-2016, 10:29 AM
#175
Community Organizer
Those are some good vids, A2.
10-12-2016, 10:33 AM
#176
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My issue with the term "snap oversteer" is that it seems incredibly inaccurate. It signifies that it was absolutely unpredictable, sudden, and without provocation.
In virtually every case, however, "snap oversteer" happened because the user initiated it and then was too distracted or unable or inexperienced to know all the clear signs that the car was giving them.
Then instead of learning or questioning what THEY did, they believe the widely perpetuated internet wisdom that it was "snap oversteer" that got them.
Its an incredibly damaging term to peoples' willingness or ability to learn.
If you are not experienced or skilled enough to be proactive or even (worst case scenario) REactive about a scenario....then why put yourself in it?
Lets use a non-car example:
-You've watched baseball...but never caught a baseball yourself.
-With overconfidence, you ask Randy Johnson to throw you a 90mph fastball because you think, "I'm good. I got this".
-Standing on your heels, and covering your face with the glove, you say "OK Randy! Go for it! Aim for my glove!"
-Randy says "idk if you want to do this...."
-You insist, "Throw the ball!"
-He does. You can't see it or even react because of your terrible form.
-He yells "Heads up!!" (warning)
-You have no idea what that saying means because you're more of a mathlete. So you actually look upward.
-The ball hits you right in the jaw. Which is THE MOST PREDICTABLE THING that could happen.
-Instead of trying to figure out what you did, you claim Randy is a maniac snap pitcher who wears snapbacks while snap chatting your snapped jaw to his snappy fingered snap crew.
In virtually every case, however, "snap oversteer" happened because the user initiated it and then was too distracted or unable or inexperienced to know all the clear signs that the car was giving them.
Then instead of learning or questioning what THEY did, they believe the widely perpetuated internet wisdom that it was "snap oversteer" that got them.
Its an incredibly damaging term to peoples' willingness or ability to learn.
If you are not experienced or skilled enough to be proactive or even (worst case scenario) REactive about a scenario....then why put yourself in it?
Lets use a non-car example:
-You've watched baseball...but never caught a baseball yourself.
-With overconfidence, you ask Randy Johnson to throw you a 90mph fastball because you think, "I'm good. I got this".
-Standing on your heels, and covering your face with the glove, you say "OK Randy! Go for it! Aim for my glove!"
-Randy says "idk if you want to do this...."
-You insist, "Throw the ball!"
-He does. You can't see it or even react because of your terrible form.
-He yells "Heads up!!" (warning)
-You have no idea what that saying means because you're more of a mathlete. So you actually look upward.
-The ball hits you right in the jaw. Which is THE MOST PREDICTABLE THING that could happen.
-Instead of trying to figure out what you did, you claim Randy is a maniac snap pitcher who wears snapbacks while snap chatting your snapped jaw to his snappy fingered snap crew.
10-12-2016, 10:39 AM
#177
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About 20 seconds or less after driving a S2000, you realize its a short wheelbase RWD sports car with short gearing and a LSD, among other things.
If you can't translate those attributes into how the car will behave and how and when to be ready....then don't drive like you're Lewis Hamilton the first time out.
Learn the car first. Then AT LEAST when you're tearing through a dark, unfamiliar neighborhood, and the turn radius suddenly decreases, you'll know why the car spun into a ditch after you panicked, let off the gas during high RPM/low gear turning situation, and grabbed the wheel with all your might and pulled it the opposite way that it was naturally turning.
Or...go to a track or autocross. Learn the car and make mistakes in a safe environment....and don't over commit to things.
If you can't translate those attributes into how the car will behave and how and when to be ready....then don't drive like you're Lewis Hamilton the first time out.
Learn the car first. Then AT LEAST when you're tearing through a dark, unfamiliar neighborhood, and the turn radius suddenly decreases, you'll know why the car spun into a ditch after you panicked, let off the gas during high RPM/low gear turning situation, and grabbed the wheel with all your might and pulled it the opposite way that it was naturally turning.
Or...go to a track or autocross. Learn the car and make mistakes in a safe environment....and don't over commit to things.
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99MCoupe (10-21-2018)
10-12-2016, 11:51 AM
#178
Just for the record - and I think you all know this - my belief is that a poor workman blames his tools. I love this little car and I'm all about learning to drive it safely and well.
You do have to remember though that this car, (like all similar cars), was marketed and sold to ordinary folks - not experienced sports car drivers. The lady I bought my car from this summer was over 80 years old for goodness sake. She was a delightful lady. She told me her husband bought it for her as a gift in 2002. It had only 8,500 miles on it. She said she didn't drive it much because she never liked the color. Whether you use the term snap oversteer or some other term doesn't really imply there is a defect with the car I don't believe. At least I never took it that way. I do think that from the rank beginner's standpoint the car is a bit of a handful. From my perspective that is part of what makes the car so much fun.
You do have to remember though that this car, (like all similar cars), was marketed and sold to ordinary folks - not experienced sports car drivers. The lady I bought my car from this summer was over 80 years old for goodness sake. She was a delightful lady. She told me her husband bought it for her as a gift in 2002. It had only 8,500 miles on it. She said she didn't drive it much because she never liked the color. Whether you use the term snap oversteer or some other term doesn't really imply there is a defect with the car I don't believe. At least I never took it that way. I do think that from the rank beginner's standpoint the car is a bit of a handful. From my perspective that is part of what makes the car so much fun.
10-12-2016, 12:18 PM
#179
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Its a bit of a handful, sure. But it was marketed as a slightly hard edged car
I think people who bought it thought it to be much more tame because it was a 4 cyl honda. "How bitey could it be"?
It honestly isn't even that rowdy for a sports car with similar stats. Its got a very composed chassis that handles its power with a lot of stability.
Imagine how unfriendly a Miata would be with 11.7:1 LB/HP, for comparison. How much trouble do you think people would get into with a 206hp miata.
I think people who bought it thought it to be much more tame because it was a 4 cyl honda. "How bitey could it be"?
It honestly isn't even that rowdy for a sports car with similar stats. Its got a very composed chassis that handles its power with a lot of stability.
Imagine how unfriendly a Miata would be with 11.7:1 LB/HP, for comparison. How much trouble do you think people would get into with a 206hp miata.
10-12-2016, 12:22 PM
#180
Well, for what its worth, my good friend just bought a brand spanking new Miata and while I have told him I'm jealous to make him feel good the truth is that car has very little appeal for me. I know they are good cars - don't get me wrong. But it just does not flip my switch the way this s2k does. I would not trade with him for all the tea in China.