windhund116

You can DELETE your post and re-enter another.

Old racer

you are right sir. In fact, this is one of the first fundamentals taught at the track
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This is a fundamental for beginning drivers. As is the term "don't lift". But lifting and using brakes are definitely techniques you need to learn once you get faster and more experienced.
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This all depends on the car. In some sedans I would turn in very sharply, with considerable braking, as the resultant understeer helped slow the car. In a Formula 1 or 2 Brabham I would usually turn in while still holding some light brakes, as it helped establish the attitude I wanted. In a Lotus I always had power on before any turn in, as they would bite you if did not have power on. A bit like our cars really.

I did once drive a Ferrari that required you to be off the brakes for at least 10 yards before turning in, for it to gather its balance before turning in. Turn in with the nose still down, & it had total breakaway of the rear end. If you gave it this time to regain its balance you could turn in over 15 MPH faster. [It took me 20 odd laps of a 6 hour race to figure this out].

The worst thing you can do with a Formula 1 or one of our cars is to saw at the wheel. You should be able to stop a rear end insipient lose by simply reducing some pro turn lock. If you apply opposite lock you have destroyed your cars balance, & will be much slower.

Try watching some Formula 1 TV coverage. You will only ever see opposite lock when they have totally lost grip, very rarely. The best drivers will be moving the wheel no more than an inch or so to correct both front & rear slides BEFORE they develop.

SmokeyGatto

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-Ey-HvA2DA[/media]


I must have superpowers

Old racer

If you want to go quickly, you stop slides from happening, not catch them after you have allowed them to develop.

rpg51

This is probably too general a question - but - if I find myself in a curve with a bit too much speed - assume I am off the brakes, in a good gear, and applying light gas - if I feel the rear loosen what should my first instinct be?

My only experience with this - and it is actually quite a bit - is driving in snow. I live in the north. You get pretty good at driving in snow up here. When you are experienced at it you can drive at the limit a lot as long as there is no traffic around. So you learn to sense where the limit is and how to bring it back if you start to lose it.

gerry100

Hate to bring up the golf analogy but this conversation has some parallels.

Driving a car at high speeds effectively involves complex and carefully timed interactions between the car and the driver. This is fertile ground for discussion, debate, analysis, books, tapes etc..

The golf swing has similiar support and background info.

One can spend their life on this stuff and still not have even a mediocre swing. Reala reps are whats needed.

The problem with cars is that " bad shots" can be expensive and dangerous.

The good news is that what applies at low speeds works at higher speeds.

" learn how to drive slow to learn to drive fast"

rpg51

Being intimately familiar with the golf swing, and being in possession of a 15 handicap despite a life time of effort, I do understand. But, even at my 15, I can move the ball left and right intentionally if I concentrate and relax at the same time. That, and the occasional hot round, keeps me coming back.

Not sure though how the heck you learn to deal with loss of grip in the back without losing grip. Seems like you do need some speed to make that happen on dry pavement.

rpg51

Is there a good driving instructional video series somewhere? I'd love to work on my driving.

gerry100

( full disclosure - I suck at golf even though I tried a bit when I played with customers. Only redeeming thing about golf is that you can drink beer and smoke cigars while you play with your friends}

Most people drive at the level of "unconscious incompetence",when they learn more it becomes " conscious incompetence", as they study driving they reach " conscious competence".

The ultimate goal is "unconsciousness,competence" where one acts correctly and instantly without thought. Pro drivers are in this zone all of the time.

After numerous hours on the track, I reached this level for a handful of moments.( memorable and gratifying).

These days I operate at conscious,competence at street speeds.

Appears you're not far from "conscious, competence" and just need awareness and practice.

Track time accelerates this tremendously. IMHO, books.tapes don't help much

Car Analogy

Yes. Its called a Track Day. With instruction. An Autocross is pretty good too.

The idea is to explore the limits, exceed them a few times so you know where they are, what they feel like, in a controlled, safe (relatively) environment.

Even just a single Autocross will make a huge improvement if you've never explored these limits before. When are starting from zero, its easy to make huge gains without huge effort (I've never played Golf, so you could help me go from not knowing how to hold a club or which one is which to hitting the ball down the green and making putts in a single day. Whereas you probably wouldn't be able to help a pro improve very much).