S2000 Marketing - the biggest lie in the auto world since...
03-07-2002, 07:47 AM
#51
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Originally posted by MyBad
I was DEFINATELY defrauded!! I was specifically told production was limited to '00 and '01 and that only 5000 would be produced each year. The dealer is STILL using the "limited production" scam on '02 models!!!
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I believe that if you can't get it honestly, you should find something different to do. I also believe that people who engage in this type of deceit are engaged in crime. Its fraud, plain and simple! They should be punished and their victims compensated!
I was DEFINATELY defrauded!! I was specifically told production was limited to '00 and '01 and that only 5000 would be produced each year. The dealer is STILL using the "limited production" scam on '02 models!!!
Maybe I'm old fashioned but I believe that if you can't get it honestly, you should find something different to do. I also believe that people who engage in this type of deceit are engaged in crime. Its fraud, plain and simple! They should be punished and their victims compensated!
03-07-2002, 08:02 AM
#53
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I think the real problem here is this:
Car dealers are the biggest donators in state legislative campaigns and have been for decades. They have convinced most states to make manufacturer-->consumer direct sales illegal, so all auto sales must go through a local dealer. Most states also make it illegal for a manufacturer to own any dealerships. (Others just limit the number of dealerships which can be owned by a particular company.)
If Honda could sell YOU a car, instead of selling it to the dealer to sell to you, you wouldn't have this price-gouging. You also wouldn't have this incredibly inefficient distribution system with an unneeded extra layer of overhead. I haven't received any benefit from talking to a salesperson on any car I have ever bought -- have you? Given that at least 25% of what they tell you about a car is wrong, they are a net minus in the transaction.
Remember: Honda gets the same amount from the dealer no matter how much you pay.
The solution is to get rid of these antiquated, anti-competitive laws and allow direct to consumer sales of cars. If the dealers want to stay in business, they will have to provide a service that customers want to pay to receive...otherwise, they disappear like the dodos. The manufacturers could have a single, centralized site in each area to allow customers to see and drive the cars in person, then sell the cars. Boom! A couple of thousand in overhead is gone.
Car dealers are the biggest donators in state legislative campaigns and have been for decades. They have convinced most states to make manufacturer-->consumer direct sales illegal, so all auto sales must go through a local dealer. Most states also make it illegal for a manufacturer to own any dealerships. (Others just limit the number of dealerships which can be owned by a particular company.)
If Honda could sell YOU a car, instead of selling it to the dealer to sell to you, you wouldn't have this price-gouging. You also wouldn't have this incredibly inefficient distribution system with an unneeded extra layer of overhead. I haven't received any benefit from talking to a salesperson on any car I have ever bought -- have you? Given that at least 25% of what they tell you about a car is wrong, they are a net minus in the transaction.
Remember: Honda gets the same amount from the dealer no matter how much you pay.
The solution is to get rid of these antiquated, anti-competitive laws and allow direct to consumer sales of cars. If the dealers want to stay in business, they will have to provide a service that customers want to pay to receive...otherwise, they disappear like the dodos. The manufacturers could have a single, centralized site in each area to allow customers to see and drive the cars in person, then sell the cars. Boom! A couple of thousand in overhead is gone.
03-07-2002, 08:48 AM
#54
Registered User
I don't think the 5000/yr imported to the US was that far off- at least the first year. The Honda sales figures I've seen showed something like 11,000 sold in North America (not just US) in 2000 (the first year). I'm guessing that somewhere around 5,000 were imported directly to the US and perhaps 3,000 more were traded from Canada and Mexico by the dealerships. There was a lot of that going on... it happened with the VW Beetle and the PT Cruiser as well. Dealerships in Canada and Mexico who were alotted a certain number could turn around and resell them to US dealers, who would then go well over MSRP. NAFTA at work!
-B
-B
03-07-2002, 10:15 AM
#55
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When the dealer makes a statement like, "this car is going to be a collectors item" and he tries to jack up the price. Do what any normal person would do. Do a little research, shop around, and find a dealer that does not BS you. Then negotiate a price for under MSRP. That is what I did!
If Honda has to settle a class action suit, they will come up with the money for the settlement by raising the MSRP on new models. This would suck for the rest of us who that eventually want to trade their car for a newer version.
JUST DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND STOP WITH THESE LAW_SUITES.
If Honda has to settle a class action suit, they will come up with the money for the settlement by raising the MSRP on new models. This would suck for the rest of us who that eventually want to trade their car for a newer version.
JUST DO YOUR HOMEWORK AND STOP WITH THESE LAW_SUITES.
03-07-2002, 12:13 PM
#56
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Name any successful car line by any major auto company (Ford, GM, or Toyota) that limited production to 2 years and 10,000 units. 
I can already see the new "idiot" stickers on the visor now "Warning no mater what you read or think you read or what ever your salesperson said we reserve the right to produce up to 1,000,000,000 cars a year for up to 100 years"
I can already see the new "idiot" stickers on the visor now "Warning no mater what you read or think you read or what ever your salesperson said we reserve the right to produce up to 1,000,000,000 cars a year for up to 100 years"
03-07-2002, 02:34 PM
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I don't want to come off like I am flaming because I am not but I have NEVER knowingly lied to someone in order to sell them a car. I'm not saying that this doesn't happen, but to say a broad statment that "All Salespeople Lie" is a little much. I have actually seen salespeople fired almost on the spot for lying to clients. I don't usually "wade in" to dealer discussions because IMO there is little for me to add. As a sales professional, it is not in my best interests to lie or mislead a client. I will not get any referrals or repeat business from this practice. One dissatisfied customer tells ten, a happy customer tells one.
Regarding the limited production aspects of this car:
The way I understand, it went like this: Honda Motors in Japan (the manufacturer) said, "we're making this new sports car, it will sell for XYZ dollars, if we make it, how many years of production do you want?" American Honda (the US distributor) commits to purchase 2 years of production, with the option to extend. IMO this is dangerous information, some will read it (or mis-read it) as a two year production run, and propagate these rumors. The sad part is, in the literal sense it is true! BUT American Honda has exercised their option.
FWIW, the above two paragraphs (almost verbatem) were taken from a thread I commented on back in May of '01 when this same discussion arose once the '02s were announced. The more things change, the more they stay the same!
Regarding the limited production aspects of this car:
The way I understand, it went like this: Honda Motors in Japan (the manufacturer) said, "we're making this new sports car, it will sell for XYZ dollars, if we make it, how many years of production do you want?" American Honda (the US distributor) commits to purchase 2 years of production, with the option to extend. IMO this is dangerous information, some will read it (or mis-read it) as a two year production run, and propagate these rumors. The sad part is, in the literal sense it is true! BUT American Honda has exercised their option.
FWIW, the above two paragraphs (almost verbatem) were taken from a thread I commented on back in May of '01 when this same discussion arose once the '02s were announced. The more things change, the more they stay the same!
03-07-2002, 03:26 PM
#58
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I don't think Honda was lying. They did import only 5000 cars for the first two years as promised. It's just that I don't think I've ever heard official statements that they're going to kill it after 2 years. It was merely "implied" by the dealers and Honda made no official comments.
If the sales were dismal, for sure Honda would've stopped. Since the sales were good enough, they've decided to up the production to 7000/year.
Whatever, I think owners can tell that there aren't a whole lot of S2000's on the road so the sense that it's "limited" is still there even after 3 years of sales. Even if they were to build as many of them as Civic, I doubt people would buy them like Civics. The car is simply too impractical.
NSX, S2000, and Insight are just for image... and I'm pretty sure they're all money losers for Honda. There's no way they'll build a lot of them... mostly because the market for them ain't that big.
If the sales were dismal, for sure Honda would've stopped. Since the sales were good enough, they've decided to up the production to 7000/year.
Whatever, I think owners can tell that there aren't a whole lot of S2000's on the road so the sense that it's "limited" is still there even after 3 years of sales. Even if they were to build as many of them as Civic, I doubt people would buy them like Civics. The car is simply too impractical.
NSX, S2000, and Insight are just for image... and I'm pretty sure they're all money losers for Honda. There's no way they'll build a lot of them... mostly because the market for them ain't that big.
03-07-2002, 06:07 PM
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I PAID $32,000. I WOULD HAVE PAID $40,000 IF THAT WAS THE PRICE. It's cheap from the factory and worth every dollar.
Car dealers are car dealers.
Many cars featuring new bodies and technology sell for over MSRP. The new Mercedes SL will sell for $15,000 over sticker, the 2003 Vipers, 2002 T-Bird. Many cars in the past have sold for over sticker: 1997 Corvette (26,000 production!), 2001 M3, 2000 Honda S2000. Some people decide to wait until prices drop to buy. Others are willing to pay a premium. That's life.
I know people who have ordered cars such as the ones above with a signed bill of sale for MSRP. However, they have been forced to pay over MSRP at delievery or loose their deposit. That is unfair!
Car dealers are car dealers.
Many cars featuring new bodies and technology sell for over MSRP. The new Mercedes SL will sell for $15,000 over sticker, the 2003 Vipers, 2002 T-Bird. Many cars in the past have sold for over sticker: 1997 Corvette (26,000 production!), 2001 M3, 2000 Honda S2000. Some people decide to wait until prices drop to buy. Others are willing to pay a premium. That's life.
I know people who have ordered cars such as the ones above with a signed bill of sale for MSRP. However, they have been forced to pay over MSRP at delievery or loose their deposit. That is unfair!