S2000 has no torque 'cos 0-60mph in 12secs - NOT
05-01-2002, 05:13 AM
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S2000 has no torque 'cos 0-60mph in 12secs - NOT
I've seen this now mentioned repeatedly every few months - Motor Trend (or some other US publication) clocked an S2000 accelerating 0-60mph while shifting at 5000rpm and this returned 12 secs. This seems to be used around (here and other places) as a proof that the S2000 has no torque (or very little). This is totally ridiculous. Yes, it does take about 12sec for the S2000 to reach 60mph when shifting at 5000rpm but it does not prove anything about the torque ... let's see what happens when you accelerate the S2000 from standstill to 60mph with no more then 5000rpm.
1) Get of the line in 1st gear (can't even drop the clutch as there's not much point to getting wheelspin when you want to keep it bellow 5000rpm). So this is probably an off-idle launch. Then you floor it and when the tacho reaches 5k you shift to 2nd gear. At this point you're doing 38kph (24mph).
2) So now you're back to 3200rpm and you have it floored. You shift to 3rd gear at 5000rpm which means that now you're doing 58kph (36mph).
3) Back to 3600rpm and floored in 3rd gear. Rev out to 5000rpm and shift to 4th gear. Now we're doing 80kph (50mph).
4) Back to 3900rpm and floored in 4th gear. Now you need to rev out to 4700rpm in order to reach 60mph.
So as you can see you're changing all the way into 4th gear and have to do a fair bit of acclerating in 3rd and 4th gears in order to reach 60 mph. This proves that S2000 has incredibly short gearing and that you need to use 4 gears to reach 60mph when limited to 5000rpm ... it does not say anything bad about the torque. I'd like to see how many (and what) cars can actually beat the S2000's 12 secs to 60mph when using 2nd gear from 24mph, 3rd gear from 36mph and 4th gear from 50mph. You need something like a Viper to post a respectable time with this criteria - which is what the S2000 was subjected to.
If anyone here has a different car but S2000 (and a G-tech or some other timing device) then I challenge you to do this test. Off-idle launch and upchange at 24, 36 and 50mph and see what time you get ... 12secs is going to be pretty hard to beat. Please post your times here as I've very curious what you guys get.
1) Get of the line in 1st gear (can't even drop the clutch as there's not much point to getting wheelspin when you want to keep it bellow 5000rpm). So this is probably an off-idle launch. Then you floor it and when the tacho reaches 5k you shift to 2nd gear. At this point you're doing 38kph (24mph).
2) So now you're back to 3200rpm and you have it floored. You shift to 3rd gear at 5000rpm which means that now you're doing 58kph (36mph).
3) Back to 3600rpm and floored in 3rd gear. Rev out to 5000rpm and shift to 4th gear. Now we're doing 80kph (50mph).
4) Back to 3900rpm and floored in 4th gear. Now you need to rev out to 4700rpm in order to reach 60mph.
So as you can see you're changing all the way into 4th gear and have to do a fair bit of acclerating in 3rd and 4th gears in order to reach 60 mph. This proves that S2000 has incredibly short gearing and that you need to use 4 gears to reach 60mph when limited to 5000rpm ... it does not say anything bad about the torque. I'd like to see how many (and what) cars can actually beat the S2000's 12 secs to 60mph when using 2nd gear from 24mph, 3rd gear from 36mph and 4th gear from 50mph. You need something like a Viper to post a respectable time with this criteria - which is what the S2000 was subjected to.
If anyone here has a different car but S2000 (and a G-tech or some other timing device) then I challenge you to do this test. Off-idle launch and upchange at 24, 36 and 50mph and see what time you get ... 12secs is going to be pretty hard to beat. Please post your times here as I've very curious what you guys get.
05-01-2002, 06:07 AM
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I'd be interested to see what happens if you cut most car's rpm in half and see how fast it gets to 60. With the exception of the vette, and maybe some LS1's, I'd like to see how most cars would do shifting with only half their rpm.
05-01-2002, 06:15 AM
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I have seen this claim before and it is beginning to bug me. While it is true and dyno proven that the S2000 is lacking in torque, that is not what the car is about. Take a look at any 4-banger street bike and compare at it's HP to torque ratios. Also, take a turbo car and turn down the boost, or pull some spark plugs on a V-8. What does any of this mean? Take an olympic runner to the track and tell him/her they can only take half strides. I'm sure they will not perform very well either. Sorry to vent but this 0-60 time thing is getting old. Matt.
05-02-2002, 01:24 AM
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I wonder how mustang would do with 3000 RPM shifts.
It's not just about halving the rev-range (or setting an arbitary rev-lmit). It's more about having to use 4th gear to accelerate to 60mph. I'd like to see how quick any car accelerates from 50 to 60mph in 4th gear ... I'm sure it will not be quick by any means. Same goes for 35 - 50mph in 3rd.
It's not just about halving the rev-range (or setting an arbitary rev-lmit). It's more about having to use 4th gear to accelerate to 60mph. I'd like to see how quick any car accelerates from 50 to 60mph in 4th gear ... I'm sure it will not be quick by any means. Same goes for 35 - 50mph in 3rd.
05-02-2002, 02:03 AM
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Good post David M and good point well made! I'm always impressed however by how much quicker the S2000 goes, or a least seems to go; I haven't taken any readings; when going that extra 1K revs and making each gear change at 6K revs before the onset of VTEC, and still with 3K revs in reserve on each gear change!!!
Ridiculous Motor Trend article in my view when you consider that the S2000 can achieve it's 0-60 time in 2nd gear and.... very nearly 0-100 in 3rd.
Ridiculous Motor Trend article in my view when you consider that the S2000 can achieve it's 0-60 time in 2nd gear and.... very nearly 0-100 in 3rd.
05-02-2002, 02:04 AM
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That's the stupidest comparison test I've ever heard
Uhhhh... Let's try another absurd comparison:
Have an S2000 start from 6k-9k in gears 1, 2 and 3.
Now repeat same test with Mustang... KABOOM!
Whatever
What does this prove? Nothing. Anyone care? No.
Uhhhh... Let's try another absurd comparison:
Have an S2000 start from 6k-9k in gears 1, 2 and 3.
Now repeat same test with Mustang... KABOOM!
Whatever
What does this prove? Nothing. Anyone care? No.
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05-02-2002, 03:33 AM
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Originally posted by Bieg
Will you all repeat this to yourself;
"It is only a 2 liter engine, it is only a 2 liter engine,......"
Will you all repeat this to yourself;
"It is only a 2 liter engine, it is only a 2 liter engine,......"
05-02-2002, 03:37 AM
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Well put David, this often quoted test has irritated me many times!
Regarding torque vs. hp there was a very interesting discussion on the Street Encounters forum.
Matt
Regarding torque vs. hp there was a very interesting discussion on the Street Encounters forum.
Matt