over rev'd on my car
02-22-2006, 03:31 PM
#71
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kayvan_pour,Feb 20 2006, 06:40 PM
And just because something doesn't look wrong now doesnt mean much. There have been cases where cracked retainers show up and start creating problems much later down the road. I suggest you a do a compression and leak down test.
The retainers have to be manually inspected.
02-22-2006, 03:36 PM
#72
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[QUOTE=S2oooNvegas,Feb 20 2006, 12:08 PM] id suggest you take it to honda and have them do a full inspection for cracked retainers. and then have it repaired while all the stuff is intact. if i valve takes a trip into a cylinder, its over.
02-22-2006, 03:42 PM
#73
Registered User
lateott is right on the money.
billman has said he's had cars that overreved and "seemed" just fine as they ran hunky dory for a couple months. then eventually, a cracked retainer let a valve slowly drop over that amount of time, and eventually, valve to piston contact, and you're looking for a new engine.
billman has said he's had cars that overreved and "seemed" just fine as they ran hunky dory for a couple months. then eventually, a cracked retainer let a valve slowly drop over that amount of time, and eventually, valve to piston contact, and you're looking for a new engine.
02-22-2006, 04:01 PM
#74
Registered User
Originally Posted by LT_s2k,Feb 21 2006, 03:01 PM
yea im 100% positive its close to 70 mph becuz ive done it plenty of times with the S and my gsr hatch...and i kno the S is quicker than my gsr hatch and my 2nd gear in the hatch redlines at 65 mph.
02-22-2006, 04:12 PM
#75
Originally Posted by LATEOTT,Feb 22 2006, 04:24 PM
QUOTE (chairmnofthboard @ Feb 20 2006, 09:06 PM)
12k+ rpm's would be if he let the engine rev to it's Max for that gear, for the most part people hit the clutch as soon as they realize it's the wrong gear and never let it rev to the max.
I would Imagine that's what happened or the engine wouldn't be running right now.
If it makes you feel better, compression test and visually inspect the valvetrain. You can do all that yourself and is not expensive to do, you can even borrow a compression tester from some autopart stores.
Xavier
A compression test or leakdown WILL NOT show the damage from an overrev, unless it is severe enough to drop a valve.
However, a passed leakdown test or compression test will give you a false confidence that your engine is undamaged, followed by very expensive engine surgery.
12k+ rpm's would be if he let the engine rev to it's Max for that gear, for the most part people hit the clutch as soon as they realize it's the wrong gear and never let it rev to the max.
I would Imagine that's what happened or the engine wouldn't be running right now.
If it makes you feel better, compression test and visually inspect the valvetrain. You can do all that yourself and is not expensive to do, you can even borrow a compression tester from some autopart stores.
Xavier
A compression test or leakdown WILL NOT show the damage from an overrev, unless it is severe enough to drop a valve.
However, a passed leakdown test or compression test will give you a false confidence that your engine is undamaged, followed by very expensive engine surgery.
"visually inspect the valvetrain"
Out of curiosity, how many engines have you opened and or built? just curious.
02-22-2006, 04:32 PM
#76
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 718
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by chairmnofthboard,Feb 22 2006, 05:12 PM
I believe I said
"visually inspect the valvetrain"
Out of curiosity, how many engines have you opened and or built? just curious.
"visually inspect the valvetrain"
Out of curiosity, how many engines have you opened and or built? just curious.
All of that is bad advice, unless he knows specifically what to look for and where to look for it. He does not (or else he wouldn't be wondering if his car is alright).
I just wanted to point out that the other diagnostic tests like a compression test could very likely lead to "False Negative" results and that the visual inspection (by someone who knows what to look for) is the only definitive test. The retainers have to be inspected for cracks AND to see whether they have shifted up on the valve stems.
I know this from extensively studying the S2000 Overrev Bible according to Woodwork and Billman250. It even has pictures.
According to Woodwork (an insider with a Honda engineering group):
"It is not hard to determine if the engine has been over reved.
The facts are: If the engine went over 9,000 then the cam is going too fast and sometimes the valve springs can not keep the rockers following the cam. (valve float). If the valves float then the valve spring slams the valve closed. If this takes place then the valve stem starts to pull through the retainer. This is the evidence.
If the car is driven above 9k the valves and seats are fine but the damage is on the other end of the valve, where the valve spring retainer will start to split which will give you a false valve clearance measurement.
If it goes above 10,700 RPM, then the valves can't close fast enough and the pistons come up to fast and it bends a valve.
It is not speculation. It is fact, and it is abuse and it can be proven in a court of law, and it is not covered by warranty. Some dealers may be deceptive and warranty this damage but it is still caused by the driver.
There may be other issues with this car that are in the gray area as to the cause, this isn't one of them. "
The facts are: If the engine went over 9,000 then the cam is going too fast and sometimes the valve springs can not keep the rockers following the cam. (valve float). If the valves float then the valve spring slams the valve closed. If this takes place then the valve stem starts to pull through the retainer. This is the evidence.
If the car is driven above 9k the valves and seats are fine but the damage is on the other end of the valve, where the valve spring retainer will start to split which will give you a false valve clearance measurement.
If it goes above 10,700 RPM, then the valves can't close fast enough and the pistons come up to fast and it bends a valve.
It is not speculation. It is fact, and it is abuse and it can be proven in a court of law, and it is not covered by warranty. Some dealers may be deceptive and warranty this damage but it is still caused by the driver.
There may be other issues with this car that are in the gray area as to the cause, this isn't one of them. "
I have had very good luck with my car over the years, until recently. I am currently in the process of diagnosing some DTCs with the help of the experts in UTH. Hopefully it won't be anything drastic but it's all been an excellent treasure hunt thus far.
02-23-2006, 12:27 AM
#79
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,724
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I've always wondered the same thing. Suppose he had a cracked retained, how long could a motor potentially run with a cracked retainer without showing symptoms?
I only ask b/c a lot of members here by there cars used, and I'm wondering if that is almost like a walking time bomb if the motor could die 6 months later. Especially since a pre-inspection is almost impossible as no seller is going to want to let you crack open their motor. How long/envolved is a typical visual retainer inspection?
I only ask b/c a lot of members here by there cars used, and I'm wondering if that is almost like a walking time bomb if the motor could die 6 months later. Especially since a pre-inspection is almost impossible as no seller is going to want to let you crack open their motor. How long/envolved is a typical visual retainer inspection?
02-23-2006, 06:13 AM
#80
Registered User
A cracked retainer can let a valve slowly drop over time. Eventually, it will drop far enough that the valve makes contact with the piston, and that is akin to a grenade exploding inside your engine. You're likly to have to do a major rebuild of the engine, if not replace it. In other words, several thousand bucks worth of repairs.
People have cracked retainers and gone several MONTHS before the valve eventually dropped far enough. PM billman, he's seen it a couple times now I think.
Basically what happened is this. They did a mechanical overrev. Their car ran fine, no DTC/CEL, nothing. So they think "cool i avoided any damage". Car runs fine with NO issues or CEL for several months. And then suddenly out of nowhere, WHAM, valve to piston contact and they're f*cked out of several grand in cash.
My advice is this. If you ever cause a mechanical overrev, just pay the $150 to have your valve retainers checked. While they are in there, you could have them do a valve adjustment too if need be. Better to spend $150 now, than spend $4000 later.
An inspection of the retainers should be possible over 2-3 hours at a dealership.
People have cracked retainers and gone several MONTHS before the valve eventually dropped far enough. PM billman, he's seen it a couple times now I think.
Basically what happened is this. They did a mechanical overrev. Their car ran fine, no DTC/CEL, nothing. So they think "cool i avoided any damage". Car runs fine with NO issues or CEL for several months. And then suddenly out of nowhere, WHAM, valve to piston contact and they're f*cked out of several grand in cash.
My advice is this. If you ever cause a mechanical overrev, just pay the $150 to have your valve retainers checked. While they are in there, you could have them do a valve adjustment too if need be. Better to spend $150 now, than spend $4000 later.
An inspection of the retainers should be possible over 2-3 hours at a dealership.