Ok - car was delivered this a.m. - first impressions...
02-26-2003, 03:18 PM
#31
Former Moderator
Originally posted by cdelena
The issue is not that it isn't a good idea. What is bandied around on the board is the premise that any criticism of the handling traits is incorrect and it is a driver issue. But in fact the handling is not the dream some people think it is, and opinions of the car can be discussed but criticism of the driving skills of someone you don't know is bogus.
The issue is not that it isn't a good idea. What is bandied around on the board is the premise that any criticism of the handling traits is incorrect and it is a driver issue. But in fact the handling is not the dream some people think it is, and opinions of the car can be discussed but criticism of the driving skills of someone you don't know is bogus.
I don't get this sentiment. I've always respected your opinion but who are you to say whether or not my S2K's handling is the dream I think it is? Maybe you're a pro level driver but for me, and for my level of driving skill, the S2K is a far better handling car than I am a driver. Furthermore, as can be evidenced at www.speedventures.net/event_results.asp, the S2K puts up a hell of a showing against cars with much more horsepower. So if you want to say that in your opinion the car isn't the great handling car some of us think it is I'm fine with that. But please don't make statements of fact about the handling of the car unless you've got some credentials that I haven't seen that qualify you to do so.
02-26-2003, 04:02 PM
#33
Former Moderator
Originally posted by cdelena
I don't usually get into these semantic arguments but I will respond to this one directed to me. I said 'some' people referring to those that will accept no criticism of the car and think the handling is perfect.. and therefore driver error if performance is not perfect. If that is you I am disagreeing with your opinion. It is fact only in that perfect and beyond criticism is a ridiculous stance to take. Worldwide opinion as well as many drivers here put it less than perfect regardless of what happens at some amateur venues. No offense intended, just clarifying my statements.
I don't usually get into these semantic arguments but I will respond to this one directed to me. I said 'some' people referring to those that will accept no criticism of the car and think the handling is perfect.. and therefore driver error if performance is not perfect. If that is you I am disagreeing with your opinion. It is fact only in that perfect and beyond criticism is a ridiculous stance to take. Worldwide opinion as well as many drivers here put it less than perfect regardless of what happens at some amateur venues. No offense intended, just clarifying my statements.
02-26-2003, 05:50 PM
#35
Registered User
But in fact the handling is not the dream some people think it is, and opinions of the car can be discussed but criticism of the driving skills of someone you don't know is bogus.
02-26-2003, 06:04 PM
#36
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s2000 handling isn't so-so, in fact it's pretty good. and if we're talking about stock for stock, there might not be any with higher absolute handling limits. but since 99% of my driving is on public streets, i don't really get ot enjoy the absolute limits. a stock, mid 90's Miata R could handle anything an manuevers that a S2000 could dish out at speeds found around town. and i think that the z4 is gonna be a potent competitor, admittedly it does cost a little more than the $35K ceiling. it is BUTT ASS UGLY and i wouldn't throw my cash at it, but the specs do look really good.
02-26-2003, 06:13 PM
#37
Registered User
Ace10,
I haven't agreed with some of your opinions in this thread, i.e. the shifter not being that great and the throws not being short, but I will agree 100% that the Z4 is a heinous travesty. BUTT ASS UGLY almost comes close to describing it but I would say it is worse.
As far as the shifter is concerned where do you really notice the most tension? What gear?
I have had my 03 for about two months now and can relate with you, but only with third gear. Seems to me like for the first ten minutes of driving or so, third always has this notchy feel to it like it has to slide to the right around something metal before going fully up and into gear. Luckily I haven't experienced the second gear grind which seems to plague many S2K's. Once the transmission is fully warmed up, after being on the road for about twenty minutes or so, it's the greatest shifting trans I personally have ever experienced. Your comment about the throw really confused me though. Going from a Z28 to the S2K made it feel, to me, like the S2K's throw was almost non-exsistant. Then again, I have never driven a Miata.
I haven't agreed with some of your opinions in this thread, i.e. the shifter not being that great and the throws not being short, but I will agree 100% that the Z4 is a heinous travesty. BUTT ASS UGLY almost comes close to describing it but I would say it is worse.
As far as the shifter is concerned where do you really notice the most tension? What gear?
I have had my 03 for about two months now and can relate with you, but only with third gear. Seems to me like for the first ten minutes of driving or so, third always has this notchy feel to it like it has to slide to the right around something metal before going fully up and into gear. Luckily I haven't experienced the second gear grind which seems to plague many S2K's. Once the transmission is fully warmed up, after being on the road for about twenty minutes or so, it's the greatest shifting trans I personally have ever experienced. Your comment about the throw really confused me though. Going from a Z28 to the S2K made it feel, to me, like the S2K's throw was almost non-exsistant. Then again, I have never driven a Miata.
02-26-2003, 06:13 PM
#38
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I don't know everything about this car, I don't claim to or act like I do. Your attitude turns me off though. But, I'll respect your opinion, except your thoughts on the "long" shift are way off to me. Did you keep your Miata? Maybe you should keep driving it. I love my smooth short shifts. You lost me
. Are you sure you own the same car as me? We are talking about the Honda S2000, correct? I've driven a Miata, and if you are saying that that shift is better, you are, well....
.
Dave
. Are you sure you own the same car as me? We are talking about the Honda S2000, correct? I've driven a Miata, and if you are saying that that shift is better, you are, well.... .Dave
02-26-2003, 06:38 PM
#39
Yeah, I'm getting tired out too. 
But, I'm a dog with a bone....
Misquote? You quoted it yourself:
"Honda has notoriously unforgiving clutches." Then you site your specific example. So Now you're saying Honda's don't have notoriously unforgiving clutches? That statement doesn't leave much to interpretation. Come on.
In truth I don't know what your leg is like. It wasn't really an attack it just sounded funny
I'm not changing the subject. Subject is: the car is larger than the miata. Bigger car, ergo more metal? right? Anybody home? I didn't know I had to be so specific in my first post. By the time this is over your going to ask me to strip the two cars and weigh their bodies. Make me two statements and I'll let this go:
1: the s2000 isn't bigger than a miata
2: the bigger body and frame can't POSSIBLY contribute SUBSTANTIALLY to the cars weight.
clear enough? sheesh.
this one we just plain aren't understanding each other: "If surface are'a' equals more weight, then why does a bowling ball weigh more than a beach ball? "
The bowling ball is uerethane and solid, and the beach ball is vinyl and hollow. Different material
I'm not stupid enough to think the s2000 is solid. I tried though . Yes a piece of steel 10 inches long and 2 inches thick WILL weigh more than a piece of steel 8 inches by 2 inched. Still with me?
As for not getting a power top, I was referring to the car as a whole, not just the top. I have no special red phone linked directly to Mr. Honda's phone line. But if I did I'd ask him to send be a stroker kit.
Cocksure : 2. Too sure; overconfident. From the American Heritage dictionary. No double meaning. I'm not sure what the double meaning would be.
I don't think making a suggestion for driving school is elitist. I'd go. I think being an ass like I was, is, well, being an ass. I'm sure we could all learn a lot on the track with some instruction. Even you, whether you like it or not.
As for the rx7's - both, although most of my rx7 experience is in the 2nd. By saying the second gen isn't superior to the miata I take it you've never driven one. The suspension setup was carried over from the 2nd to the 3rd gen, and you'll find it on the new rx8. I think it's a fine peice of engineering, and could be why I like the S2000 so much. To me they feel very simliar, although, as you say the back end on the S is a bit more aggressive. And truthfully, I LIKE the miata, especially how it feels. Very similar to the rx, there share that light and stiff Mazda feeling, but I still feel the rx7 (2nd gen) is a notch up than the miata from the factory. I actually owned a coupe 2nd, although my stepfather (still) owns a convertable. Mazda designed the 2nd gen as a convertable first, like Honda did with the S. Not loss in rigidity versus the coupe. I don't remember exact numbers but the 2nd gen was actually more rigid than the 90's 300zx (I was surprised by this, because nissan really touted how stiff the zx was, it was also a tad more aerodynamic). I was talking specifically rigidity, although, now that you mention it, it's blind spots are not as bad as the S, probably because the door window goes back farther.....
FINALLY - whew - I was actually referring to myself being an ass, which I thought was obvious
But, I'm a dog with a bone....
Misquote? You quoted it yourself:
"Honda has notoriously unforgiving clutches." Then you site your specific example. So Now you're saying Honda's don't have notoriously unforgiving clutches? That statement doesn't leave much to interpretation. Come on.
In truth I don't know what your leg is like. It wasn't really an attack it just sounded funny
I'm not changing the subject. Subject is: the car is larger than the miata. Bigger car, ergo more metal? right? Anybody home? I didn't know I had to be so specific in my first post. By the time this is over your going to ask me to strip the two cars and weigh their bodies. Make me two statements and I'll let this go:
1: the s2000 isn't bigger than a miata
2: the bigger body and frame can't POSSIBLY contribute SUBSTANTIALLY to the cars weight.
clear enough? sheesh.
this one we just plain aren't understanding each other: "If surface are'a' equals more weight, then why does a bowling ball weigh more than a beach ball? "
The bowling ball is uerethane and solid, and the beach ball is vinyl and hollow. Different material
I'm not stupid enough to think the s2000 is solid. I tried though . Yes a piece of steel 10 inches long and 2 inches thick WILL weigh more than a piece of steel 8 inches by 2 inched. Still with me?As for not getting a power top, I was referring to the car as a whole, not just the top. I have no special red phone linked directly to Mr. Honda's phone line. But if I did I'd ask him to send be a stroker kit.
Cocksure : 2. Too sure; overconfident. From the American Heritage dictionary. No double meaning. I'm not sure what the double meaning would be.
I don't think making a suggestion for driving school is elitist. I'd go. I think being an ass like I was, is, well, being an ass. I'm sure we could all learn a lot on the track with some instruction. Even you, whether you like it or not.
As for the rx7's - both, although most of my rx7 experience is in the 2nd. By saying the second gen isn't superior to the miata I take it you've never driven one. The suspension setup was carried over from the 2nd to the 3rd gen, and you'll find it on the new rx8. I think it's a fine peice of engineering, and could be why I like the S2000 so much. To me they feel very simliar, although, as you say the back end on the S is a bit more aggressive. And truthfully, I LIKE the miata, especially how it feels. Very similar to the rx, there share that light and stiff Mazda feeling, but I still feel the rx7 (2nd gen) is a notch up than the miata from the factory. I actually owned a coupe 2nd, although my stepfather (still) owns a convertable. Mazda designed the 2nd gen as a convertable first, like Honda did with the S. Not loss in rigidity versus the coupe. I don't remember exact numbers but the 2nd gen was actually more rigid than the 90's 300zx (I was surprised by this, because nissan really touted how stiff the zx was, it was also a tad more aerodynamic). I was talking specifically rigidity, although, now that you mention it, it's blind spots are not as bad as the S, probably because the door window goes back farther.....
FINALLY - whew - I was actually referring to myself being an ass, which I thought was obvious
