Big Al

Here is an interesting link with data on motor oil.
http://www.micapeak.com/info/oiled.html

I am still trying to find a technical reason for not using synthetic early in the life of a S2K.

heffeme

nice link BIGAL. i'm also interested in why synthetics wouldn't be good early in an engine's life. so i'm sending it to the top....

CoralDoc

Thanks Al. The link was interresting to read. The only argument that I've heard about synthetics being a disadvantage is during break-in. The logic that I have heard is that synthetics are too slippery and prevent the small amount of shear necessary for polishing wear surfaces. Since the petroleum based oils are inexpensive and work very well, I'm waiting to switch to synthetic until my third oil change at 11k miles.

Dave

I think I remember someone here saying that Redline did studies showing that using synthetic during break-in caused the cylinder wall crosshatching to bend over instead of shear off like its supposed to. Couldn't find the link.

My brother is a chemical engineer. He says (more hearsay) that synthetic will protect the engine longer, but that isn't a factor since the oil gets dirty way before it begins to break down, so you gotta change it anyway.

1Y2KS2K

I took my S2K into Honda this morning for the seatbelt recall. The guy checked the computer and said I was overdue for the 7500 service. I told him I had it done last Friday by an independant Honda shop so that he could put in my synthetic Royal Purple (?) instead of the regular Castrol/Mobil stuff.

The service manager slapped my wrist (!) and told me a Honda directive states that they do not recommend or endorse the use of synthetic oils until 12,000 plus. That's contrary to the recommendations I've read from the "knowledgable oil people" on this board!

cdelena

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1Y2KS2K:
[B] The service manager slapped my wrist (!) and told me a Honda directive states that they do not recommend or endorse the use of synthetic oils until 12,000 plus.

Big Al

I continue to search for technical insight to the oil question. I spoke with a technical marketing manager of lubricant additives and he had a wealth of info. We both had meetings to go to and only got to talk about 10 minutes by phone. He promised to get me some real contacts/experts. He offered a few interesting comments. Here they are:

1. The concept of a engine coming with special break-in oil is antiquated. He said that it could be possible but unlikely.
2. Ford in Europe is putting synthetic in all cars as factory fill. As we all know already, several high performance cars come with synthetic as factory fill in the US.
3. Mobil 1 is no longer guaranteed to be fully synthetic per the old definition, i.e. 100% PAO. Mobile 1 has followed suit with Castrol using some chemically modified mineral oil.
4. PAO (Poly-alpha olefin) synthetics are actually hard on elastomer seals. Synthetics generally have an additive to protect the seals in an engine.
5. The feeling in the industry is that Mobil 1 is still the premier synthetic that is readily available.
6. Cylinder wall polishing in a break-in period is actually very harmful long-term term. Cylinder honing marks actually promote lubrication on a microscopic scale. In other words, the honing grooves allow a mechanism to hold the oil film and promote lubrication between the rings and the cylinder walls. There is actually a test for diesel service to check the amount of cylinder wall polishing in terms of the percentage loss of honing grooves over a test period under control conditions.
7. The chemically modified mineral oils that are available as so called synthetics (Castrol) are water clear and the additives actually give it color. Oil suppliers understand that the consumer would not quickly accept an oil that is colorless and actually see additives that impart color as an advantage. ( I have seen this with Castrol, barely able to see it on the dip stick.)

cdelena

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bigal:
[B] 1. The concept of a engine coming with special break-in oil is antiquated.

Big Al

Do you have a thread for the Redline comments, I'd like to see them.

1Y2KS2K

[QUOTE]Originally posted by cdelena:
[B] See if you can get a copy of this Honda