OEM vs Mugen Hardtop - some questions......
12-13-2015, 08:38 AM
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OEM vs Mugen Hardtop - some questions......
My recently-acquired S is not a GT, but I am evaluating the possibility of having a removable hardtop installed. I know this topic has been discussed before, but I haven’t found definitive answers to the following questions that I have been mulling over before deciding:
1. Has anybody switched from the OEM hardtop to a Mugen, or a replica, and wished they hadn’t? If so, why?
2. I note that there is a 10 Kg weight difference between the aluminium OEM top and Mugen CF hard top (Mugen CF is 34 Kg and OEM is 44 Kg). Is the rigidity/stiffness between the two similar though (i.e. does the Mugen CF and/or FRP as rigid/stiff as the OEM version, if not more)?
3. I note that Mugen tops are provided with all OEM accessories (fitting kit, bolts, catchers, latches etc.), so I don’t expect any issues with fitment. However, does the initial snugness tend to erode after a period of time (i.e. does the Mugen tend to warp/deform due to heat or any other reasons, provided the seals are lubricated and latches adjusted etc.)? I note that the OEM top may deform if stored incorrectly when not in use.
4. Has anybody installed a glass rear window in the Mugen, and further installed one with a demister/heater element? Found this offering by Octane Motorsports: https://www.octanemotorsports.com/00...op-p-9646.html Does anybody know of a place in the United Kingdom that does something similar, preferably with a demister/heater element?
5. Are all Lexan/Plexiglass rear windows, that come as standard on Mugen hardtops, tinted? Can one opt for a clear window, and if one does, do they fade/discolour with time, or even crack?
6. What is the remedy if the Lexan/Plexiglass rear window gets scratched, or is it tough enough to withstand use and the risk of scratching is minimal?
1. Has anybody switched from the OEM hardtop to a Mugen, or a replica, and wished they hadn’t? If so, why?
2. I note that there is a 10 Kg weight difference between the aluminium OEM top and Mugen CF hard top (Mugen CF is 34 Kg and OEM is 44 Kg). Is the rigidity/stiffness between the two similar though (i.e. does the Mugen CF and/or FRP as rigid/stiff as the OEM version, if not more)?
3. I note that Mugen tops are provided with all OEM accessories (fitting kit, bolts, catchers, latches etc.), so I don’t expect any issues with fitment. However, does the initial snugness tend to erode after a period of time (i.e. does the Mugen tend to warp/deform due to heat or any other reasons, provided the seals are lubricated and latches adjusted etc.)? I note that the OEM top may deform if stored incorrectly when not in use.
4. Has anybody installed a glass rear window in the Mugen, and further installed one with a demister/heater element? Found this offering by Octane Motorsports: https://www.octanemotorsports.com/00...op-p-9646.html Does anybody know of a place in the United Kingdom that does something similar, preferably with a demister/heater element?
5. Are all Lexan/Plexiglass rear windows, that come as standard on Mugen hardtops, tinted? Can one opt for a clear window, and if one does, do they fade/discolour with time, or even crack?
6. What is the remedy if the Lexan/Plexiglass rear window gets scratched, or is it tough enough to withstand use and the risk of scratching is minimal?
12-13-2015, 09:50 AM
#2
Fitment on oem and mugen frp and mugen carbon are all great.
User Chris_Lum installed a glass window in his mugen after the tinted plexiglass got swirled up(my fear with my mugen at the moment) No defrost installed though but I dont think its needed because the cabin is so small.
It is very easy to add swirls in the window. Treat the window as if it is brand new black paint. Dont use paper towels, only soft microfiber to clean it, but I only touch mine if its covered in soap and even then I try and just let the soap lift the dirt off.
I think all the tops will need some initial adjustment after the car gets on the road and flexes a bit things can loosen, but once they get set they seem to stay.
I have a mugen but want an oem now, guess i just like to change things up
User Chris_Lum installed a glass window in his mugen after the tinted plexiglass got swirled up(my fear with my mugen at the moment) No defrost installed though but I dont think its needed because the cabin is so small.
It is very easy to add swirls in the window. Treat the window as if it is brand new black paint. Dont use paper towels, only soft microfiber to clean it, but I only touch mine if its covered in soap and even then I try and just let the soap lift the dirt off.
I think all the tops will need some initial adjustment after the car gets on the road and flexes a bit things can loosen, but once they get set they seem to stay.
I have a mugen but want an oem now, guess i just like to change things up
12-13-2015, 10:14 AM
#3
I switched from OEM to a Mugen Carbon Fiber. I like the Mugen better, slightly lighter, but I like the sound quality better inside the cabin, the oem roof liner seemed to trap sounds in the cabin, whereas the harder surface Mugen doesn't. I still like both but I prefer the Mugen.
The weight difference is not 10 kg, more like 10 pounds.
My rear lexan window is mint. I polish it once a year with Megs Plast-x , and then keep it treated with Plexus , I only clean it with Plexus which provides UV protection and it won't cause swirls. I treat it inside and out. I have no need for a glass window.
You might want to consider the Mugen FRP top, even lighter and often found for less money, I think they are great too.
My Mugen is no more noisy than the OEM top, they all move and creak a tiny bit, easily adjusted most of the time, you have to expect a bit of noise when you add a hardtop to a convertible body, but mine fits well. I had some creaking going on with the Mugen and I was able to adjust it out, with the OEM top I had a bit of movement over some bumps, so they all have some small noise to contend with, nothing major and never had a leak.
The weight difference is not 10 kg, more like 10 pounds.
My rear lexan window is mint. I polish it once a year with Megs Plast-x , and then keep it treated with Plexus , I only clean it with Plexus which provides UV protection and it won't cause swirls. I treat it inside and out. I have no need for a glass window.
You might want to consider the Mugen FRP top, even lighter and often found for less money, I think they are great too.
My Mugen is no more noisy than the OEM top, they all move and creak a tiny bit, easily adjusted most of the time, you have to expect a bit of noise when you add a hardtop to a convertible body, but mine fits well. I had some creaking going on with the Mugen and I was able to adjust it out, with the OEM top I had a bit of movement over some bumps, so they all have some small noise to contend with, nothing major and never had a leak.
12-13-2015, 12:32 PM
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Thanks for your feedback, which is useful.
Do you remove the hardtop or leave it permanently on the car?
The Mugen top does look rather different in a rather 'cool' sort of way - I haven't seen one in the flesh as yet. I see that you have painted part of it. Aesthetically did it look better than leaving it unpainted. My S is New Indy Yellow, and I am not sure whether a CF top will look better unpainted.
As regards the Mugen FRP top, are you saying it is lighter than the OEM top, or the Mugen carbon fibre one? How do these two compare in terms of rigidity/stiffness when compared to the OEM item?
Fitment on oem and mugen frp and mugen carbon are all great.User Chris_Lum installed a glass window in his mugen after the tinted plexiglass got swirled up(my fear with my mugen at the moment) No defrost installed though but I dont think its needed because the cabin is so small.It is very easy to add swirls in the window. Treat the window as if it is brand new black paint. Dont use paper towels, only soft microfiber to clean it, but I only touch mine if its covered in soap and even then I try and just let the soap lift the dirt off.I think all the tops will need some initial adjustment after the car gets on the road and flexes a bit things can loosen, but once they get set they seem to stay.I have a mugen but want an oem now, guess i just like to change things up
I switched from OEM to a Mugen Carbon Fiber. I like the Mugen better, slightly lighter, but I like the sound quality better inside the cabin, the oem roof liner seemed to trap sounds in the cabin, whereas the harder surface Mugen doesn't. I still like both but I prefer the Mugen.
The weight difference is not 10 kg, more like 10 pounds.
My rear lexan window is mint. I polish it once a year with Megs Plast-x , and then keep it treated with Plexus , I only clean it with Plexus which provides UV protection and it won't cause swirls. I treat it inside and out. I have no need for a glass window.
You might want to consider the Mugen FRP top, even lighter and often found for less money, I think they are great too.
My Mugen is no more noisy than the OEM top, they all move and creak a tiny bit, easily adjusted most of the time, you have to expect a bit of noise when you add a hardtop to a convertible body, but mine fits well. I had some creaking going on with the Mugen and I was able to adjust it out, with the OEM top I had a bit of movement over some bumps, so they all have some small noise to contend with, nothing major and never had a leak.
The weight difference is not 10 kg, more like 10 pounds.
My rear lexan window is mint. I polish it once a year with Megs Plast-x , and then keep it treated with Plexus , I only clean it with Plexus which provides UV protection and it won't cause swirls. I treat it inside and out. I have no need for a glass window.
You might want to consider the Mugen FRP top, even lighter and often found for less money, I think they are great too.
My Mugen is no more noisy than the OEM top, they all move and creak a tiny bit, easily adjusted most of the time, you have to expect a bit of noise when you add a hardtop to a convertible body, but mine fits well. I had some creaking going on with the Mugen and I was able to adjust it out, with the OEM top I had a bit of movement over some bumps, so they all have some small noise to contend with, nothing major and never had a leak.
As regards the Mugen FRP top, are you saying it is lighter than the OEM top, or the Mugen carbon fibre one? How do these two compare in terms of rigidity/stiffness when compared to the OEM item?
12-13-2015, 12:55 PM
#5
Thanks for your feedback, which is useful.
Do you remove the hardtop or leave it permanently on the car?
The Mugen top does look rather different in a rather 'cool' sort of way - I haven't seen one in the flesh as yet. I see that you have painted part of it. Aesthetically did it look better than leaving it unpainted. My S is New Indy Yellow, and I am not sure whether a CF top will look better unpainted.
As regards the Mugen FRP top, are you saying it is lighter than the OEM top, or the Mugen carbon fibre one? How do these two compare in terms of rigidity/stiffness when compared to the OEM item?
Originally Posted by sillyboybmxer' timestamp='1450032656' post='23826785
Fitment on oem and mugen frp and mugen carbon are all great.User Chris_Lum installed a glass window in his mugen after the tinted plexiglass got swirled up(my fear with my mugen at the moment) No defrost installed though but I dont think its needed because the cabin is so small.It is very easy to add swirls in the window. Treat the window as if it is brand new black paint. Dont use paper towels, only soft microfiber to clean it, but I only touch mine if its covered in soap and even then I try and just let the soap lift the dirt off.I think all the tops will need some initial adjustment after the car gets on the road and flexes a bit things can loosen, but once they get set they seem to stay.I have a mugen but want an oem now, guess i just like to change things up
I switched from OEM to a Mugen Carbon Fiber. I like the Mugen better, slightly lighter, but I like the sound quality better inside the cabin, the oem roof liner seemed to trap sounds in the cabin, whereas the harder surface Mugen doesn't. I still like both but I prefer the Mugen.
The weight difference is not 10 kg, more like 10 pounds.
My rear lexan window is mint. I polish it once a year with Megs Plast-x , and then keep it treated with Plexus , I only clean it with Plexus which provides UV protection and it won't cause swirls. I treat it inside and out. I have no need for a glass window.
You might want to consider the Mugen FRP top, even lighter and often found for less money, I think they are great too.
My Mugen is no more noisy than the OEM top, they all move and creak a tiny bit, easily adjusted most of the time, you have to expect a bit of noise when you add a hardtop to a convertible body, but mine fits well. I had some creaking going on with the Mugen and I was able to adjust it out, with the OEM top I had a bit of movement over some bumps, so they all have some small noise to contend with, nothing major and never had a leak.
The weight difference is not 10 kg, more like 10 pounds.
My rear lexan window is mint. I polish it once a year with Megs Plast-x , and then keep it treated with Plexus , I only clean it with Plexus which provides UV protection and it won't cause swirls. I treat it inside and out. I have no need for a glass window.
You might want to consider the Mugen FRP top, even lighter and often found for less money, I think they are great too.
My Mugen is no more noisy than the OEM top, they all move and creak a tiny bit, easily adjusted most of the time, you have to expect a bit of noise when you add a hardtop to a convertible body, but mine fits well. I had some creaking going on with the Mugen and I was able to adjust it out, with the OEM top I had a bit of movement over some bumps, so they all have some small noise to contend with, nothing major and never had a leak.
As regards the Mugen FRP top, are you saying it is lighter than the OEM top, or the Mugen carbon fibre one? How do these two compare in terms of rigidity/stiffness when compared to the OEM item?
I'm not much of a convertible fan, I run the hardtop about 90% of the season, I'm a true hardtop guy. I take it off in cooler weather, and tend to keep it on throughout the summer season in our parts.
I bought my Mugen carbon fiber top used , it was painted red, so I went over it in silver to colour match it to my car. I would have left it natural carbon if I would have gotten it new. On the yellow a natural carbon would look nice, in the Mugen FRP a nice black would look good on yellow, or you could paint it.
The Mugen FRP is lighter than the carbon fiber and OEM tops, I don't recall but I think it is like 23 lbs ? . I never heard of any rigidity issues with the FRP top, but I've never had one. They are much more affordable though, the Carbon fiber ones are really expensive. I think the FRP would be rigid enough.
12-14-2015, 07:44 AM
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I'm not much of a convertible fan, I run the hardtop about 90% of the season, I'm a true hardtop guy. I take it off in cooler weather, and tend to keep it on throughout the summer season in our parts.
I bought my Mugen carbon fiber top used , it was painted red, so I went over it in silver to colour match it to my car. I would have left it natural carbon if I would have gotten it new. On the yellow a natural carbon would look nice, in the Mugen FRP a nice black would look good on yellow, or you could paint it.
The Mugen FRP is lighter than the carbon fiber and OEM tops, I don't recall but I think it is like 23 lbs ? . I never heard of any rigidity issues with the FRP top, but I've never had one. They are much more affordable though, the Carbon fiber ones are really expensive. I think the FRP would be rigid enough.
I bought my Mugen carbon fiber top used , it was painted red, so I went over it in silver to colour match it to my car. I would have left it natural carbon if I would have gotten it new. On the yellow a natural carbon would look nice, in the Mugen FRP a nice black would look good on yellow, or you could paint it.
The Mugen FRP is lighter than the carbon fiber and OEM tops, I don't recall but I think it is like 23 lbs ? . I never heard of any rigidity issues with the FRP top, but I've never had one. They are much more affordable though, the Carbon fiber ones are really expensive. I think the FRP would be rigid enough.
Agree that the natural finish, showing the carbon fibre weave, will look nice against the yellow. Cost is the only factor.......
12-14-2015, 09:43 AM
#7
From the perspective of living with the roofing solution day-to-day, the OEM has better visibility with its wrap-around rear window... The Mugen looks great, but has less visibility with the flat back window...
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12-14-2015, 04:37 PM
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Thanks for that - good point, see what you mean.....although this is not a daily driver (summer use only), the irony is that I am not a fan of convertibles but love the S for its engine and gearbox, and the whole design ethos. We are not likely to see a car like it again.
12-14-2015, 06:38 PM
#9
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Since we are on the subject, where can one get a dark polycarbonate window made? Sign shop?
I love my authentic Mugen top...except that I can't seem to drive in any sort of drizzle/rain without it running off the edge and pouring onto the armrest area. That's my only complaint. My window is at least 10 years old I'd assume, and looks darn perfect.
I love my authentic Mugen top...except that I can't seem to drive in any sort of drizzle/rain without it running off the edge and pouring onto the armrest area. That's my only complaint. My window is at least 10 years old I'd assume, and looks darn perfect.
12-14-2015, 10:28 PM
#10
Originally Posted by MikeekiM' timestamp='1450118621' post='23827661
From the perspective of living with the roofing solution day-to-day, the OEM has better visibility with its wrap-around rear window... The Mugen looks great, but has less visibility with the flat back window...
I really love the finished look that the hardtop provides...nice headliner, better noise and temperature insulation...I had a tight fit with my one-piece brackets, and then struggled to get the same fitment with the OEM brackets... Anytime you have the perfect installation and decide to change out components, you are asking for trouble... I think I finally have it tweaked back to the same tight tolerances... That's one thing that I really hate was how difficult it was to get the hardtop installed with zero rattles and creaks... My troubles all seem to manifest themselves at the front clips...I installed shims and the clips still don't lock down tight... But like I said, I think I finally tweaked and adjusted the rattles and creaks out of the system!