New S200 sales continue To decline
06-08-2005, 05:41 PM
#51
Originally Posted by cthree,Jun 8 2005, 02:24 PM
The reason for declining sales is that Honda is using the Adam Smith method of marketing. Demand could easily outstrip supply again with just the smallest amount of effort on Honda's part, effort they don't seem all that interested in making. The only ad I've seen for the S2000 in the past 2 years is in a Ridgeline commercial!
They don't race it. The RX-8 and the 350Z are both racing in Grand Am Cup. They don't advertise it, anywhere. They don't capitalize on the ownership experience (aka s2ki) like say BMW does with BMWCCA. They don't do shit in fact. Those sales are driven entirely by word of mouth (aka s2ki) and nothing more. I'm surprised they sold that many.
Bottom line is that Honda's marketing department is driven by volume and that volume comes from the Civic, Accord and Acura sedans. It's all about short term thinking and about meeting this months quotas. There is no reward for creative thinking and emphasis on long term goals.
What Honda has going for them (or against as may be the case long-term) is a rock-solid engineering team and excellent manufacturing and quality control. The entire organization rests on these assets. As for the rest of the company, dead weight.
Honda is run by accountants and MBAs. There is no creative vision for the company at the top and that lack of leadership shows from the top down. When was the last time you heard the Honda CEO say anything? Do you even know who the CEO is? I don't. Where is Honda's vision statement? What are their goals? I dunno. Sell as many civics as possible I'm guessing.
Honda spent millions on the OwnerLink website. Do you even know what that is? If so are you registered? I'm not, what's the point? s2ki has 2000 paying members, almost 40000 users and we are directly responsible for hundreds of S2000 sales each year. They don't even return my phone calls so I don't even bother making them anymore. I can't even make a t-shirt that says "S2000" on it without getting a cease and desist letter by registered mail.
I'm not a fan of peons and I have no interest in dealing with them. A decline in S2000 sales is a direct result of suffocation from within Honda and nothing more. My car is over 5 years old and I still have people stop me to talk about it. Those are customers and they are doing what they have been doing in increasing numbers; walking away and buying something else.
The 2-seat roadster/sub-GT market is as strong as it has ever been in the history of the automotive industry. There isn't a manufacturer of note that isn't making one! BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Mazda x2, Pontiac, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Toyota and yes, contrary to what Honda themselves is telling you even Honda. Don't blame the market. The market is fine. Blame the geniuses at Honda for limping in, loitering and eventually fading out of it.
They will eventually see the numbers drop so low that the wizoos will say "there is no market for it anymore, we should cancel it" and they will. This year? Next year? Something like that. I'm sure Honda's execs are chanting "die bitch die" as I write this.
Comparison with the fate of the NSX is not far off.
They don't race it. The RX-8 and the 350Z are both racing in Grand Am Cup. They don't advertise it, anywhere. They don't capitalize on the ownership experience (aka s2ki) like say BMW does with BMWCCA. They don't do shit in fact. Those sales are driven entirely by word of mouth (aka s2ki) and nothing more. I'm surprised they sold that many.
Bottom line is that Honda's marketing department is driven by volume and that volume comes from the Civic, Accord and Acura sedans. It's all about short term thinking and about meeting this months quotas. There is no reward for creative thinking and emphasis on long term goals.
What Honda has going for them (or against as may be the case long-term) is a rock-solid engineering team and excellent manufacturing and quality control. The entire organization rests on these assets. As for the rest of the company, dead weight.
Honda is run by accountants and MBAs. There is no creative vision for the company at the top and that lack of leadership shows from the top down. When was the last time you heard the Honda CEO say anything? Do you even know who the CEO is? I don't. Where is Honda's vision statement? What are their goals? I dunno. Sell as many civics as possible I'm guessing.
Honda spent millions on the OwnerLink website. Do you even know what that is? If so are you registered? I'm not, what's the point? s2ki has 2000 paying members, almost 40000 users and we are directly responsible for hundreds of S2000 sales each year. They don't even return my phone calls so I don't even bother making them anymore. I can't even make a t-shirt that says "S2000" on it without getting a cease and desist letter by registered mail.
I'm not a fan of peons and I have no interest in dealing with them. A decline in S2000 sales is a direct result of suffocation from within Honda and nothing more. My car is over 5 years old and I still have people stop me to talk about it. Those are customers and they are doing what they have been doing in increasing numbers; walking away and buying something else.
The 2-seat roadster/sub-GT market is as strong as it has ever been in the history of the automotive industry. There isn't a manufacturer of note that isn't making one! BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Mazda x2, Pontiac, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Toyota and yes, contrary to what Honda themselves is telling you even Honda. Don't blame the market. The market is fine. Blame the geniuses at Honda for limping in, loitering and eventually fading out of it.
They will eventually see the numbers drop so low that the wizoos will say "there is no market for it anymore, we should cancel it" and they will. This year? Next year? Something like that. I'm sure Honda's execs are chanting "die bitch die" as I write this.
Comparison with the fate of the NSX is not far off.
Basically I agree with you.
Lack of advertising (Adam Smith), though, has been a day-1 thing. Can't attribute a decline in the numbers to that. Yeah, they could pick it up if they capitalized on it though.
I feel your pain with Honda corporate. They are inscrutable, and I have no idea why they don't want to "play" with the owners clubs, s2ki, etc...
06-08-2005, 06:08 PM
#52
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Originally Posted by Saki GT,Jun 8 2005, 04:35 PM
cthree, great post back on page one - I really have nothing more to add, your argument was so comprehensive, but I'll write some stuff anyway. Personally, the S wasn't even on my radar when I started looking at a new car last yr. Thank God I saw that yellow S sitting on the lot, and took the chance....
People want fresh, new stuff, which is why product lifecycles are so short in the US. Its remarkable that cars like the Boxster go so long between updates, and that the 911 is essentially recognizable no matter what year you come from. This is also the reason BMW took such a radical design change with its "flame" surfacing. The S is basically the same design its always been. Plus, 30k is a lot to pay for a few-frills roadster.
Although advanced for its time, time is catching up, and the wow features on the original S are more common today, and people are being shown flashier stuff. Plus, with the new Mustang, Boxster, Miata, Solstice in the market, there are a lot of flashier, better marketed cars out there. I've seen more Solstice commercials already than all the S commercials I've ever seen.
Maybe at Duke, but not at Carolina!
People want fresh, new stuff, which is why product lifecycles are so short in the US. Its remarkable that cars like the Boxster go so long between updates, and that the 911 is essentially recognizable no matter what year you come from. This is also the reason BMW took such a radical design change with its "flame" surfacing. The S is basically the same design its always been. Plus, 30k is a lot to pay for a few-frills roadster.
Although advanced for its time, time is catching up, and the wow features on the original S are more common today, and people are being shown flashier stuff. Plus, with the new Mustang, Boxster, Miata, Solstice in the market, there are a lot of flashier, better marketed cars out there. I've seen more Solstice commercials already than all the S commercials I've ever seen.
Maybe at Duke, but not at Carolina!
I love that there is Duke vs. UNC thing everywhere, even in my MCAT class. But c'mon, outside of basketball, the schools are about as different as it gets. Why can't we all just get along and just watch some bball? Getting a little tired of UNC people picking on Dukies everywhere, why do you hate us? OH WHY??? You guys are the champions already, what more can you possibly want...? Boooo....
It's about time to change my screenname
06-08-2005, 06:34 PM
#53
Perhaps its because its the start of summer now, and a lot of people arent looking for an enthusiasts car like the S2000 and more of a refined luxury coupe like a BMW or Mercedes? Or perhaps people arent looking for a 34k dollar 2 seater but instead a 30k sedan with as much speed potential yet enough room for the wife and kids? Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr A lot of people go on vacation in May so theyre not gonna buy cars! 
06-08-2005, 07:36 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by zcarcrazy,Jun 8 2005, 04:30 PM
I wouldn't say so, I met this guy at the barber shop admiring my S. he asked how I liked it and proceeded to tell me that I bought it too soon because the Pontiac Solstice is coming and he is waiting. I wonder how many moer like him are out there? 
06-08-2005, 07:40 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by zcarcrazy,Jun 8 2005, 04:32 PM
Wrong again
06-08-2005, 09:02 PM
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I heard they are going to stop making S2000s after 2006 model year... I heard it's discontinued...
(Now you guys have to reset your counters!
)
Now seriously, why is this stuff important? We are still talking about sales in the thousands. Many cars that are mass-market often have trouble selling more than a couple hundred a month.
(Now you guys have to reset your counters!
)Now seriously, why is this stuff important? We are still talking about sales in the thousands. Many cars that are mass-market often have trouble selling more than a couple hundred a month.
06-09-2005, 03:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cthree,Jun 8 2005, 10:24 AM
The reason for declining sales is that Honda is using the Adam Smith method of marketing. Demand could easily outstrip supply again with just the smallest amount of effort on Honda's part, effort they don't seem all that interested in making. The only ad I've seen for the S2000 in the past 2 years is in a Ridgeline commercial!
They don't race it. The RX-8 and the 350Z are both racing in Grand Am Cup. They don't advertise it, anywhere. They don't capitalize on the ownership experience (aka s2ki) like say BMW does with BMWCCA. They don't do shit in fact. Those sales are driven entirely by word of mouth (aka s2ki) and nothing more. I'm surprised they sold that many.
Bottom line is that Honda's marketing department is driven by volume and that volume comes from the Civic, Accord and Acura sedans. It's all about short term thinking and about meeting this months quotas. There is no reward for creative thinking and emphasis on long term goals.
What Honda has going for them (or against as may be the case long-term) is a rock-solid engineering team and excellent manufacturing and quality control. The entire organization rests on these assets. As for the rest of the company, dead weight.
Honda is run by accountants and MBAs. There is no creative vision for the company at the top and that lack of leadership shows from the top down. When was the last time you heard the Honda CEO say anything? Do you even know who the CEO is? I don't. Where is Honda's vision statement? What are their goals? I dunno. Sell as many civics as possible I'm guessing.
Honda spent millions on the OwnerLink website. Do you even know what that is? If so are you registered? I'm not, what's the point? s2ki has 2000 paying members, almost 40000 users and we are directly responsible for hundreds of S2000 sales each year. They don't even return my phone calls so I don't even bother making them anymore. I can't even make a t-shirt that says "S2000" on it without getting a cease and desist letter by registered mail.
I'm not a fan of peons and I have no interest in dealing with them. A decline in S2000 sales is a direct result of suffocation from within Honda and nothing more. My car is over 5 years old and I still have people stop me to talk about it. Those are customers and they are doing what they have been doing in increasing numbers; walking away and buying something else.
The 2-seat roadster/sub-GT market is as strong as it has ever been in the history of the automotive industry. There isn't a manufacturer of note that isn't making one! BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Mazda x2, Pontiac, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Toyota and yes, contrary to what Honda themselves is telling you even Honda. Don't blame the market. The market is fine. Blame the geniuses at Honda for limping in, loitering and eventually fading out of it.
They will eventually see the numbers drop so low that the wizoos will say "there is no market for it anymore, we should cancel it" and they will. This year? Next year? Something like that. I'm sure Honda's execs are chanting "die bitch die" as I write this.
Comparison with the fate of the NSX is not far off.
They don't race it. The RX-8 and the 350Z are both racing in Grand Am Cup. They don't advertise it, anywhere. They don't capitalize on the ownership experience (aka s2ki) like say BMW does with BMWCCA. They don't do shit in fact. Those sales are driven entirely by word of mouth (aka s2ki) and nothing more. I'm surprised they sold that many.
Bottom line is that Honda's marketing department is driven by volume and that volume comes from the Civic, Accord and Acura sedans. It's all about short term thinking and about meeting this months quotas. There is no reward for creative thinking and emphasis on long term goals.
What Honda has going for them (or against as may be the case long-term) is a rock-solid engineering team and excellent manufacturing and quality control. The entire organization rests on these assets. As for the rest of the company, dead weight.
Honda is run by accountants and MBAs. There is no creative vision for the company at the top and that lack of leadership shows from the top down. When was the last time you heard the Honda CEO say anything? Do you even know who the CEO is? I don't. Where is Honda's vision statement? What are their goals? I dunno. Sell as many civics as possible I'm guessing.
Honda spent millions on the OwnerLink website. Do you even know what that is? If so are you registered? I'm not, what's the point? s2ki has 2000 paying members, almost 40000 users and we are directly responsible for hundreds of S2000 sales each year. They don't even return my phone calls so I don't even bother making them anymore. I can't even make a t-shirt that says "S2000" on it without getting a cease and desist letter by registered mail.
I'm not a fan of peons and I have no interest in dealing with them. A decline in S2000 sales is a direct result of suffocation from within Honda and nothing more. My car is over 5 years old and I still have people stop me to talk about it. Those are customers and they are doing what they have been doing in increasing numbers; walking away and buying something else.
The 2-seat roadster/sub-GT market is as strong as it has ever been in the history of the automotive industry. There isn't a manufacturer of note that isn't making one! BMW, Mercedes, Ford, Mazda x2, Pontiac, Chevrolet, Cadillac, Toyota and yes, contrary to what Honda themselves is telling you even Honda. Don't blame the market. The market is fine. Blame the geniuses at Honda for limping in, loitering and eventually fading out of it.
They will eventually see the numbers drop so low that the wizoos will say "there is no market for it anymore, we should cancel it" and they will. This year? Next year? Something like that. I'm sure Honda's execs are chanting "die bitch die" as I write this.
Comparison with the fate of the NSX is not far off.
06-09-2005, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by kctham,Jun 8 2005, 08:52 AM
also, all those other manufacturers are offering financial incentives for their vehicles.
anyone see any incentives, rebates, financing deals on the S2000?
anyone see any incentives, rebates, financing deals on the S2000?
$299.00 per month for 36 months.
$2,499.00 capitalized cost reduction.
$3,693.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month
06-09-2005, 10:19 AM
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cthree, very well put. It is unfortunate Honda does not give this car the attention it deserves, in my opinion, it borders on an insult. All the same, every day I see it in my garage and I smile. Even if they don't know how to treat it, at least they built it.
BTW I felt inspired to renew my membership so make it 2001 paying members
BTW I felt inspired to renew my membership so make it 2001 paying members
06-09-2005, 11:11 AM
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Am I right to assume that when/if the S2000 gets discontinued our cars will hold better resale value, or even gain value like what happened with the supra's?
To me the math is simple. However, I could be wrong. I'm new to Honda's.
enthusiasts want the car, honda stops making it, few years go by and number of good condition S2k's decrease driving up the value an enthusiast would pay.
keep the flames in your fireplace if I'm wrong.
To me the math is simple. However, I could be wrong. I'm new to Honda's.
enthusiasts want the car, honda stops making it, few years go by and number of good condition S2k's decrease driving up the value an enthusiast would pay.
keep the flames in your fireplace if I'm wrong.