patinum

Are you saying the RL and TL are more performance oriented cars than the RSX and TSX?

Like you said Toda's recommendations are for serious tuning. For serious tuning it would be better for the F20 to go vtec-less (ie always in vtec). Vtec itself (at least my limited understanding of it) seems like its purpose was for better fuel economy without sacrificing too much performance (or another way to think about it, to get more performance from a economical engine). Since i-vtec seems to have the same result as vtec when it first came out, with the addition of it being easier to tune, seems like it is more technologically advanced.

(this post has no tone of trying to sound like a dick, just trying to understand)

1fastminivan

I dont doubt that the New Si will give the S a good run with bolt ons. I ran my buddy with an 03 Civic Si with his K20A2 motor which is the one found in the RSX Type S. He is gutted completely and has D2 suspension, AEM V2, Magnaflow catback and the DC Race Header, before the DCRH he dynoed 191whp and 139wtq........untuned. I sold him my DCRH and I installed it on his car. We ran a few times on the highway from a 3rd gear punch at around 75mph. He would start to pull on me every time. I am stock, minus the 02 ECU I am using on my 01. I think the new coupe Si with that motor and if it loses some weight it will definitely give the S a good run and or beat the S............as far as 1/4 times etc etc. I dunno about the road course hehehe

LiQUiD iCE

Considering the first VTEC engine was the NSX engine, I kind of doubt that VTEC was originally invented for fuel economy.

There are two variations of VTEC. VTEC-E and normal VTEC, sometimes called power-VTEC. VTEC-E is used to improve fuel economy, while regular VTEC is used to improve performance and is usually used in Honda's more performance oriented cars.

There are engines out there that use VTEC to improve fuel economy (the ones that use VTEC-E), but engines with VTEC can be used to help improve performance at higher RPMS. The entire idea of VTEC is that you can use it to produce more power in the low rpms and more power in the higher rpms with 2 cam profiles (there are 3 cam profiles in some of the older 4cyl engines). iVTEC allows for more adjustability so you get a better curve.

BTW- As of today, there is no Honda 6 cylinder engine which uses iVTEC in the same way that the 4cyl engines do. The Accord Hybrid, the JDM Inspire and the new Oddysey which claim to have iVTEC are simply v6 VTEC SOHC engines with cylinder management (car can shut off 3 of its cylinders while cruising to save on fuel). Basically its a stupid marketing scheme which will confuse the heck out of most people.

The only engines with VTEC and VTC (Variable Timing Control) are the 4cyl engines at this point in time.

You can read more about iVTEC here: http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/

nalVle

actually, i was under the impression that the addition of i-VTEC makes for smoother power delivery over a more broad power range than VTEC would. instead of the cam settings changing once at 6krpm, theyre changing constantly from 5k and up, thus producing more power delivered equally through the RPMs, instead of peak HP at 9krpms. this is why the k20 is seeing so much hp from i/h/e/reflash. correct me if im wrong.
-Chris

LudegarH22A7

I have been in a Hondata, ITR cam, AEM no exhaust RSX whilst owning my S. It's a beast, no shittin' around. I ran and beat him on both runs but I trully beleive it's because he couldn't hook-up. That won't be the case in the Si. And we still don't know where the rev-limit will be... I'm thinking a part from the possiblity of getting weak gears, the car will be ready to run with the best of em... Again S drivers, hone your skills becuase you will have to drive your little rear ends off!!

patinum

I still think the S would have no trouble beating it on a track (ie, turns). I remember a best motoring video where they ran a bunch of cars including the S and a JDM Integra Type-R (RSX). Again, remember the Type-R has 220hp and a lsd. The S beat it hands down. This of course could be the driver (gansan) but I think 50/50 weight distribution and rwd had it's hand in the win as well. The way I think about it is the JDM ITR is putting down probably 200hp to the wheels (less loss on fwd cars) and the s2000 is putting around the same. I think the rsx weighs less as well. With power being about equal, it boils down to how that power is used - gearing, tires, suspension, driver, driver/car feedback, (think it has the same brakes as the S), etc.

I can't tell, but are we getting off topic?

steven975

i highly doubt the new si will have a LSD. the 05 rsx-s doesn't and it sells at a higher price.

often, expensive performance enhancing stuff like LSDs are put on show/concept cars that never make production. i can also guarantee that it won't have a 9000 redline.

you never know, it may be a turbocharged, low revving K.

pace76

I haven't had time to read all of the responses in this thread but....

I can't believe you guys are comparing a civic to an S2000. First of all the civic is a FWD compact while the S2000 is a RWD roadster??? apples and oranges guys!

The question about which one is more advanced could be based on a number of factors including engine, suspension, tires, aerodynamics, etc.

My bet is on the S2000. But why are we even worried about this? Why not compare the S2000 to say a new boxter, Z4 or something else in our class. Nothing else in the honda family other than the NSX is worth comparison.....imo

Elistan

"More advanced"? Eh, I suppose it's possible. With the increase in computing power, it's possible that Honda has done some additional analysis and develped a more efficient, less detonation-prone cylinder head design. Or perhaps they have a new cylinder wall material that's more durable. Or a new ABS system that reacts more quickly. Maybe they have a new way of stamping steel for a 3% cost savings.

Who knows, really.

LudegarH22A7

LSD has been confirmed by Honda per/ TOV. Navigation as well with a max price of $22K. Brembos and 18" wheels are the only the concept items which will not be offered in the producton model. Again, be prepared. In my post I noted a mildly tuned Civic to an S, not stock for stock.