Mistaken identity again....
08-30-2001, 09:35 AM
#41
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Originally posted by jschmidt
Yea, this is the big excuse for all of the abusive tactics that are really not about safety (like put your hands on the car while I jerk around...) I'm telling you, this doesn't happen in other countries (that are democracies). We've been hyped into accepting this guilty-until-proven-innocent approach.
Yea, this is the big excuse for all of the abusive tactics that are really not about safety (like put your hands on the car while I jerk around...) I'm telling you, this doesn't happen in other countries (that are democracies). We've been hyped into accepting this guilty-until-proven-innocent approach.
08-30-2001, 10:02 AM
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Originally posted by drogers
Talk to an RCMP officer in Vancouver one day - in the last 10 years, things have really changed, to the point that in some areas they are threatened with weapons as much as their counterparts to the south...
Talk to an RCMP officer in Vancouver one day - in the last 10 years, things have really changed, to the point that in some areas they are threatened with weapons as much as their counterparts to the south...
The job is scary, yes. But it's not so dangerous. It's a much less dangerous job (statistically) than being a carpenter. Don't see those carpenters pulling their skillsaws do ya'?
08-30-2001, 12:36 PM
#43
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It's a much less dangerous job (statistically) than being a carpenter. Don't see those carpenters pulling their skillsaws do ya'? ------
Good point! When a carpenter has a bad day he/she looses a finger. When law enforcement has a bad day, they die. I am sure the young fella was just trying to have some fun. Nothing like pulling out his toy for a little bit of the old cops and robbers game. Seriously though, sue the bastard. It will make the world a better place!
Good point! When a carpenter has a bad day he/she looses a finger. When law enforcement has a bad day, they die. I am sure the young fella was just trying to have some fun. Nothing like pulling out his toy for a little bit of the old cops and robbers game. Seriously though, sue the bastard. It will make the world a better place!
08-30-2001, 01:02 PM
#44
Good point! When a carpenter has a bad day he/she looses a finger. When law enforcement has a bad day, they die.
Carpenter bad days also include falling off the 4th floor, getting impaled by rebar, sides of the ditch caving in and buring them alive, crane falling over, etc.
08-30-2001, 01:14 PM
#45
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I have a theory that police officers are, above all else, people that always wanted to wear a gun around.
You should complain to as many superior officers and watchdog groups as possible. Put some blemishes on that rookies file, so that when he does screw up, your incident will be another nail in his coffin.
You should complain to as many superior officers and watchdog groups as possible. Put some blemishes on that rookies file, so that when he does screw up, your incident will be another nail in his coffin.
08-30-2001, 02:54 PM
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I didn't want to be the one to play devil's advocate but I guess I will.
(Brian gets on soapbox)
First off, it really sucks what happened. I am sure it was very traumatic for humanatek and his wife. Did the young officer go too far- YES. Do we need yet another lawsuit clogging up the judicial system - NO. If a suit was to be filed in an attempt to reprimand/teach this officer then fine, it may be a worthwhile venture, but if it is simply to get some cash to ease pain and suffering then I think time would be better spent sharing this experience with this officer's superiors and citizen advocacy groups.
Secondly, I think we are expecting WAY too much from a rookie cop. What do these guys get paid a year? I have a few friends who are officers here in the Austin area and I can tell you its not very much. Cops CHOOSE to be cops in spite of the danger. The carpenter analogy proves this because a carpenter probably makes MORE than a cop and yet people are still willing to join the force. I'm sure some of the cops out there do it just to carry a gun but I'm also sure a large majority do it because it can be a very rewarding profession (despite all the grief they get when they do their job). Is anyone who responded to this thread suggesting legal action willing to be a cop? I don't think so. I believe the statistics that you are more likely to get hurt as a carpenter than as a cop, but at the same time cops face this risk EVERY TIME they pull some one over.
I'm sure that humanatek and his wife are very nice people but to say that displaying thier disposition in front of a judge in court would prove that the cop is an idiot is probably a little bit of a stretch. This officer was in the field, having only encountered these people for a few moments in an uncontrolled setting so I'm sure it is a little hard to make a character judgement in that short period of time. Unfortunately, not all criminals where a big hat that says "Low Life Scum, Arrest Me Please"
Lastly, to expect the ticket to get thrown out because of mistaken identity is ludicrous. The confession of the commision of the crime has already been made. The excessive behavior of the officer does not change that fact.
I say this is a good opportunity to teach this officer and all others about going too far. Their job is to protect and serve all citizens but lets not forget they are also citizens and they make mistakes, just like everyone else. It's unfortunate that this happened and I hope it doesn't happen again to anyone else.
(Brian gets off soapbox)
(Brian gets on soapbox)
First off, it really sucks what happened. I am sure it was very traumatic for humanatek and his wife. Did the young officer go too far- YES. Do we need yet another lawsuit clogging up the judicial system - NO. If a suit was to be filed in an attempt to reprimand/teach this officer then fine, it may be a worthwhile venture, but if it is simply to get some cash to ease pain and suffering then I think time would be better spent sharing this experience with this officer's superiors and citizen advocacy groups.
Secondly, I think we are expecting WAY too much from a rookie cop. What do these guys get paid a year? I have a few friends who are officers here in the Austin area and I can tell you its not very much. Cops CHOOSE to be cops in spite of the danger. The carpenter analogy proves this because a carpenter probably makes MORE than a cop and yet people are still willing to join the force. I'm sure some of the cops out there do it just to carry a gun but I'm also sure a large majority do it because it can be a very rewarding profession (despite all the grief they get when they do their job). Is anyone who responded to this thread suggesting legal action willing to be a cop? I don't think so. I believe the statistics that you are more likely to get hurt as a carpenter than as a cop, but at the same time cops face this risk EVERY TIME they pull some one over.
I'm sure that humanatek and his wife are very nice people but to say that displaying thier disposition in front of a judge in court would prove that the cop is an idiot is probably a little bit of a stretch. This officer was in the field, having only encountered these people for a few moments in an uncontrolled setting so I'm sure it is a little hard to make a character judgement in that short period of time. Unfortunately, not all criminals where a big hat that says "Low Life Scum, Arrest Me Please"
Lastly, to expect the ticket to get thrown out because of mistaken identity is ludicrous. The confession of the commision of the crime has already been made. The excessive behavior of the officer does not change that fact.
I say this is a good opportunity to teach this officer and all others about going too far. Their job is to protect and serve all citizens but lets not forget they are also citizens and they make mistakes, just like everyone else. It's unfortunate that this happened and I hope it doesn't happen again to anyone else.
(Brian gets off soapbox)
08-30-2001, 03:20 PM
#47
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Generally I'm not one of those people that says to file a lawsuit for every little thing. This, however, is not a little thing. Do you have any idea how close you are to being DEAD when someone who is obviously afraid has a gun pointed at your head? I guarantee you there wasn't a safety turned on on that gun at the time. This guy flinches just a little bit and we aren't talking about just being tramautized about someone having a gun pointed at them, we're talking about someone being dead. This was nothing short of an act of overreacting by people who are supposed to be trained NOT to overreact. At the minimum make sure you file an official complaint. I believe those go into the officer's file whether or not an investigation turns anything up or not. If it were me I'd also consult an attorney.
08-30-2001, 03:55 PM
#48
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Stated earlier:
Generally I'm not one of those people that says to file a lawsuit for every little thing. This, however, is not a little thing. Do you have any idea how close you are to being DEAD when someone who is obviously afraid has a gun pointed at your head? I guarantee you there wasn't a safety turned on on that gun at the time. This guy flinches just a little bit and we aren't talking about just being tramautized about someone having a gun pointed at them, we're talking about someone being dead. This was nothing short of an act of overreacting by people who are supposed to be trained NOT to overreact. At the minimum make sure you file an official complaint. I believe those go into the officer's file whether or not an investigation turns anything up or not. If it were me I'd also consult an attorney.
This is exactly right! This putz should NOT be holding a gun. People are so used to cops "accidentally" shooting somebody, or holding a gun in somebody's face that it seems some people think it's somehow okay now. I for one think that if you cannot handle the responsibility of holding a gun and a badge, then you should find another form of employment. What is equally frustrating is when these jerks do this then DON'T apologize for it! What the heck is that about? Wonder what they would think if somebody did that to a member of THEIR family? Cops think they are god, and that is scary.
Generally I'm not one of those people that says to file a lawsuit for every little thing. This, however, is not a little thing. Do you have any idea how close you are to being DEAD when someone who is obviously afraid has a gun pointed at your head? I guarantee you there wasn't a safety turned on on that gun at the time. This guy flinches just a little bit and we aren't talking about just being tramautized about someone having a gun pointed at them, we're talking about someone being dead. This was nothing short of an act of overreacting by people who are supposed to be trained NOT to overreact. At the minimum make sure you file an official complaint. I believe those go into the officer's file whether or not an investigation turns anything up or not. If it were me I'd also consult an attorney.
This is exactly right! This putz should NOT be holding a gun. People are so used to cops "accidentally" shooting somebody, or holding a gun in somebody's face that it seems some people think it's somehow okay now. I for one think that if you cannot handle the responsibility of holding a gun and a badge, then you should find another form of employment. What is equally frustrating is when these jerks do this then DON'T apologize for it! What the heck is that about? Wonder what they would think if somebody did that to a member of THEIR family? Cops think they are god, and that is scary.
08-30-2001, 04:22 PM
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Here is my take on this. I live in Toronto Canada and I have only had a few run ins with the police, none of them as serious as this. For the most, they have been professional with maybe two cases where the cop was taking himself and his/her job a little too God like. I don't understand why some cops have to pull a power trip when you are nice to them and cooperating which I always do.
I personally am also sick of everybody suing everybody for just about anything. In this case, I like the idea of going to a superior officer, or whomever is in charge of the precint. Explain the whole situation, the behaviour of both the policemen, how you feel that the rookie cop did not exhibit enough confidence to be out there doing his job. Also mention how you were cooperating and ask what are the guidelines wrt to pulling out a gun and sticking it in someone's face. Here in TO, everytime a gun leaves a holster, a report must be filed. See if the officer treats you in a professional manner, offers you an apology, realizes that maybe the rookie needs more training and hopefully drop the ticket. If they are still stubborn and do not realize that there was something wrong with the situation you were put in, SUE their asses off. That would be my last resort, if the senior authorities do not acknowledge that you were wronged.
I personally am also sick of everybody suing everybody for just about anything. In this case, I like the idea of going to a superior officer, or whomever is in charge of the precint. Explain the whole situation, the behaviour of both the policemen, how you feel that the rookie cop did not exhibit enough confidence to be out there doing his job. Also mention how you were cooperating and ask what are the guidelines wrt to pulling out a gun and sticking it in someone's face. Here in TO, everytime a gun leaves a holster, a report must be filed. See if the officer treats you in a professional manner, offers you an apology, realizes that maybe the rookie needs more training and hopefully drop the ticket. If they are still stubborn and do not realize that there was something wrong with the situation you were put in, SUE their asses off. That would be my last resort, if the senior authorities do not acknowledge that you were wronged.
08-30-2001, 04:43 PM
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WOW!! I really appreciate everyone's support and advice. I spoke with an attorney friend of mine who also just so happens to be an ex cop. He is doing some follow-up with the commanding officer right now and pending their response, I will decide what action to take. Thanks again everyone and I will keep you updated....