pellisS2k

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Iceman
[B]I'm shocked at how maintanance free the B20C engine is.

no1fa

You asked my opinion, so I will give it to you. This is just my opinion, so I would appreciate not getting beaten up for it. I have always been a BMW fan, the S2000 I have now is my first Honda. That being said, I may be biased. Prior to this, I had a 1998 M3, but when my lease was up I owed far less than the car could be sold for, so I sold it for a handsome profit. I then bought the S2000 because I have always wanted a convertible. I looked at the M Roadster and the Z3 3.0, but the Honda was a much better value for what you get.

I do enjoy the S2000 very much, but frequently I am sad that I do not have the M3 anymore. There is just something about a BMW that is hard to explain. I know the S2000 can most likely match performance of the M3, but I feel less confident in the S2000. I know people are going to reply saying that I am an inexperienced driver and that if I knew how to drive the S2000, I would feel more confident, etc, etc, etc. There I've already said it so nobody else has to. The bottom line is this, I've been to the driving schools so I feel that I can handle the car. I know the cars are totally different, so maybe I am the type that just likes the M3. I guess in an ideal world I would have an M3 as a daily driver and an S2000 as a fun car. That Ideal world would also cost upwards of 90,000

Bottom line, if you want a good daily driver that is tight, has abundant torque at the lower end, and will still out perform most cars on the road - go for the M3

If you want a pure sport, high-revving, hands-on, very unique vehicle, go for the S2000.

Regarding maintenance, in 45,000 miles, I never had any expensive problems with the M3, even when it was out of warranty. Sure there were little things here and there like the brake light circuit or the door lock, but I have 6,000 miles on the S2000 and I had to have it in the dealership this morning to replace the "main" fuse next to the battery and they can't tell me why the fuse blew. That's comforting to be driving down the street and having the electrical system completely fail. All cars have their quirks. (Side note: If anybody wants to know how I got the car to the dealer once the electrical system failed, lets just leave it at I'm glad I had paperclips in my briefcase) Drive both cars and buy the one that makes you feel good.

My $.02, and I always welcome intellectual discourse.

vtec2k

Good comments no1fa. Your maintenance on the M3 is what i would consider "one of the lucky." Through my research Ihave found that a number of owners of M3's swear to the reliability of the vehicle, particularly the 98 and 99 models, as they are probably bug free and arent quite as old.

In regards to the fun of the car .. could you explain what makes the M3 more "fun" to you. I guess it would be a subjective thing .. I would rather be revving into vtec once a day then feeling the broad powerband of the m3, because i like that shot of speed all at once. im curious as to the people response .. between the M3 and the S2000. I just wonder if they are much different.

Thanks

no1fa

Again, at the risk of being flamed...

You are right the M3 has a broad powerband. 236 lb/ft of torque is amazing for a car that size, and it starts on the very low end. Don't get me wrong, I love getting the S2000 up into VTEC land, it is a rush. What I loved about the M3 is that the car "felt" (Key word is felt) that fast all of the time, particularly in 3rd gear. 3rd was amazing. You could be cruising at 30mph, step on the gas and the push into your seat was amazing.....85 before you knew what happened.

The S2000 as I said is more hands on. I just read a huge thread, which I inadvertantly played a part in by asking a similar question about a month ago regarding shifting into neutral without clutching. The thread was huge and that is what I love about this forum. The thread illustrated how important it is to be in the right gear at the right time. Now 95% of the time, I love to participate in the precision driving skills that the S2000 demands. On the other hand there are Monday mornings and late nights, etc where I would like to not think about driving so much. The M3 was very forgiving in that you had power in virtually every situation, and you could drive it as intensely as the S2000, but it was not necessary. The S2000 requires work to get the power. It's there, absolutely, but just takes some work.

I think the M3 is better to drive every day. It is almost as stiff, it handles just as well, is just as fast, but also is a little more refined. Yes that's it - Refined!!! That's what sets it apart.

The S2000 is more of a raw sportscar, which is what makes it so awesome, but also can make it difficult day in and day out.

If I had it to do over, I would have kept the M3, saved my money and bought an S2000 for the weekend

Silver S2K

The single stupidest thing I have ever done, automotive, involved a '97 Dakar Yellow M3/2. I bought that car w/18K miles in 1998 for $36,000. It was optioned out and I added a JL stealth box audio system. It was quick, precise, handled well, and could be driven for 12Hrs straight w/zero fatigue. I chipped it and it loved to visit the 140s - 150s. It was tight as a vault and made no squeaks or rattles.

I spent $1000 on the 30000 mile tune up (I had some extra precautionary work done like a cooling system flush etc.). I also had the plastic fuel vapor trap (cracked) fixed free of charge after the warranty expired because "that should have never broken in the first place." This was at a dealer I had never visited before, who fixed while I waited, with no appointment!!!! It never had to visit the dealer for anything else.

Then.... I traded it in on a 1999 C5 convertible in 2000. Oh what a stupid move. The C5 was a rolling pile of defects. The only thing sadder than the problems with the car were the people I had to deal with to get it "fixed". The definition of fixed is 75% corrected w/a new component broken in the process. I still get ill today thing about that screw up

In your situation, I'd say the used M3 is a much more livable option.

S2000JDM

No1fa,... same exact feeling here. I still miss my M3 ('95) even though I love the S2K. Looking back,... I wish I had kept the M3,... maybe that straight 6 torque is just too addictive,...

vtec2k

Interesting comments guys .. perhaps i should just invest in a well encompassing extended warranty and purchase the M3 in place of the S2k .. ?

Basically my only fear is the cost of owning an M3 in the long run. But I am getting a lot of positive responses on M3 reliability .. just as many positives as negatives ..That is the only thing I am concerned about.

dbrower

If you are torn by prices looking at used vehicles, then you ought to consider the cost of ownership -very- closely. The BMW commits you to BMW priced maintenance. The Honda is still a Honda. Specifically, you be looking at $500 "inspections" with the BMW at depressingly short intervals. On the Honda, you are looking at $50 oil changes for the most part.

My BMW did "break my wallet", and I'm a happy honda owner. Technically I could afford anything I want, but I really resented the price of Fritz's time. If you -can't- afford anything you want, you ought to look carefully at the
real costs.

-dB

vtec2k

Indeed .. i think I can find a very nice E36 m3 for considerably less then a used S2k in the fall .. but the long term costs will quickly inflate the price of that Bimmer.

And if anything ever breaks on my S2k.. i would breathe a sigh of relief knowing i can take it to a Honda Dealer and not Hanzz from Germany

S2000JDM

You can pick up a terrific M3 for $10K less than a new S2K. Get an extended warranty and you'd have to really work hard to even get close to the price vs maintenance difference. My M3 was bullet proof (one water pump,... that was it with 85K miles). My buddy has a turbocharged M3 that is a freaking animal and he's had terrific reliability even though he drives the car hard every day.

Nothing against the S2k (which I am loving) but then you get to depreciation. A low $20s M3 isn't likely to depreciation much--they are always in strong demand (a "Top 10" car for many years in a row). Depreciation on a new S2K?? Hmmm, I sold my first one (a 2000) at a profit, but in the years ahead the car is going to get into a softer position.

Comparing depreciation off a solid used M3 vs a new S2K? My guess is that S2Ks will continue to soften significantly in the next 2-3 years as the car becomes readily available. Both cars are great,... just totally different. Tough decision (but a great one!).

John