s2k aok

i've had the S azz come out on me twice unexpectedly both times on the same turn both times in the rain. first time it was my fault, coming in too fast to the turn. the rear came out, scared the crap out of me as i didn't want to slide into a car at the stoplight. thankfully i counter-steered with neutral throttle, funny i was looking out the side window the whole time during the turn as i was that sideways.

the second time i was going through slow and it popped out on me, this time it startled me but remembering from the other time i easily pulled out of the mishap. so, this turn was puzzling me. another day it just rained and the ground was a just a little damp.

going home from work this time i go through the turn and i intentionally mash the gas and turn the wheel initiating a mini-drift. my conclusion was that this turn was freshly paved with an excessive amount of seashell in the mix, don't know if anybody else has roads with a seashells, being from up north we had tar mixed with little pebbles or something, but seashell roads can be damn slick.

other turns on other days that are dry i've gone quick through turns, throttling into them. the back end doesn't come out (at least not for me). i'd say with the S be mindful in the rain and the road surfaces (as some are smoother than others). but straight regular driving day to day i don't think you'll spin out.

jeffbrig

Good god, no! You just have to keep in mind that there's a finite amount of grip available, to be split between acceleration and turning. You can use 100% of your grip to turn, at neutral throttle. Or, you can use 80% of your grip to turn, and 20% to accelerate. Or, 50% and 50%. But, for any speed, give it too much throttle, and you will exceed available grip. If you're cornering near 100%, it doesn't take much at all. Or, you can back down the initial speed, and use a lot more throttle to power through a turn (ever heard the phrase "slow in, fast out"?).

And you must remember that power delivery is not constant through the rpm range. As speed increases, not only is more lateral grip needed, but as the engine develops more power with more rpms, the grip needed for acceleration is also increasing. This is why most novices spin in vtec, when the engine is putting out max power.

The key is knowing where you're at in terms of grip, and you'll only gain that through experience. That's why everyone advices seat time, driver's education, autocross, etc. to learn the capabilities and limits of the car.

[QUOTE]Do I counter steer to bring the rear back in?

rb4065

1. Gears:

Yes, definitely stay in the same gear.

Speaking of gears: get all your shifting done before the turn. Must do it while going straight. If the wheel is starting to turn and you're still shifting, things might not end well. At least if you're driving hard and the car is near its grip limits.

Also, make sure you're in a gear that can give you enough power to throttle steer (more on that later)... if you're in too high a gear then you might not be getting enough power to the ground to keep the rear happy and planted.

2. Steering wheel:

When you turn it, do it smoothly. A firm motion, but not too hurried.

You want to set your steering wheel angle at the very beginning of the turn (at "turn-in") and keep it there. Don't go shuffling the steering wheel mid-corner. That's asking for trouble. Set it to a certain position at the beginning of the turn, keep it there (to the apex and past it), and then only begin to wind it back out after the turn is over (towards your "track out" point).

3. Throttle:

First, don't suddenly lift or suddenly mash the throttle. You can make adjustments to the throttle mid-corner, but do it smoothly.

You always want to be on the throttle through most of a corner. Not full throttle, it's slow in fast out: a little of throttle in the early part of the corner, and gradually feed in the power as you're heading out of it.

Throttle steering... since you're not moving the steering wheel during the corner (as per previous section), how do you steer? With the accelerator...
- if you find yourself too close to the inside of the corner (or oversteering) then accelerate a bit. This will give the rears more traction than the fronts, making the fronts "slip" (they'll just have less grip) and the car will push out wide
- if, on the other hand, you find yourself too far from the inside of the corner (or understeering) then lift off the throttle a bit. This will make the rear have less traction than the fronts, so the rears will "slip" and that'll lead to a bit of ass-out rotation that can be helpful oversteer. Just a few degrees, nothing visible or drifty. Don't overdo it or the rear will come around and you'll spin

rb4065

[QUOTE=e39m5,Mar 29 2009, 08:55 AM] If the rear breaks loose, which may happen if you're too far down on the throttle, keep the throttle at the same position.

Is that correct so far?

What's next?

Riviera

Coming from an experience where I spun 360+ during wet condition (search for 360+ and you'll see what I mean), this thread is excellent.

Should be stickied, IMO.

Beyond_Redline

lift-off oversteer in the wet is one of the most scariest experience i've ever had!!!

RavynX

I've only spun out on AutoX. I was going through a slalom making a left around a cone and went stepped on the gas a little too hard and spun out counter-clockwise. There was no recovering it at all. I was able to recover 2 near-spinouts earlier when the track was wet but that doesn't come too often when you're driving at the limits. Especially with this car, the car will seem fine up until the threshold, but once you pass it... you're gone. There's not much of a warning like what you get in other cars and that's where people screw up.

B.Money

Some good advice in here! Driving 101

RFCR

Why does a ball fall to the floor when I let go of it?

This question of rear traction is like asking why doesn't the S drive itself. You lose grip and it'll slide, simple as that. If you drive into something, it'll dent, that's just the way it is.

There is early warning if you are expert driver and have the revs in the powerband. You can then modulate a drift. There are videos of this. The CR is quite the monster when it comes to showboating and shredding tire, not that i have any interest in wearing out my new ride...but the potential is all there.

megafriday

A man's got to know his limitations