never lost control of mine. .you just have to know what you're doing and know what you're driving.

my car talks to me, in the middle of a turn it lets me know, ease up on the throttle the back end is almost coming out, or it says come on man step on it im getting some understeer up here kick the back out some.

 

I've had the rear step out on me a couple times in the S2K and recovered no problem.

The only time I experienced severe "pucker" with the Honda was when I nearly drove the damn thing into a median divider while sweeping out of a turn on a road that had deep grooves in the pavement. The tires "wanted" to follow the grooves into the median.

 

i havent lost control in mine yet and thats because i havent really pushed it. if i were to do so, it would be in a more controlled environment like an empty parking lot so i can practice.

 

Thats not quite a fair comparison.

If a chainsaw just threw a chain in the powerband while not cutting anything, yes that is a problem. Same goes for a s2000 normally driving straight (assuming perfect grip tires, no adverse conditions, etc) and all of a sudden the backend goes out.

However to say that the car is tail happy in a corner is not a correct assumption because now you have a driver controlling the vehicle and he determines what happens. Would you say a chain saw cutting through diamond and it throwing a chain in its powerband a design issue? No, you wouldn't. You'd simply say the chainsaw is doing something it can't handle. Same goes for the s2000 in the wrong hands. The driver obviously can't handle it.

 

[QUOTE=Ruprecht,Feb 20 2007, 09:53 PM]The Perfect Storm, with the convenience (and sheep enabler) of a push button start...which is why the car can be blamed for backend swings, which is why VSA is now on the scene.

If a factory spec chainsaw is more prone than other models to throw the chain within the factory powerband, there is a design issue.

If a factory spec car coming out of a corner (or even on straight-away's according to some of the stories I have read here) is more likely to throw the backend (than other models) there is a design issue.

 

If you ever "stepped on it" because you were understeering, IRL, you would lose control!

 

I see your points, but think there is a fine line on either side.

For example, if someone designed a chainsaw for use in those lumberjack sport shows, designed to cut through a big tree as fast as possible, and in support of that requirement, crafted the saw with an odd weight balance or removed a safety bar for accessibility and efficiency in the task by design, that's one thing.

It becomes another thing when the guy making that special purpose saw places it in on the general mass consumer market sitting on the shelf next to the Homelite. This will cause liability issues.

Our legal system (and I think it's a crappy excuse) has taught the sheep that the manufacturer is responsible for spoon feeding the pablum in a safe manner and must pre-think for the sheep. Consumers therefore have grown to expect this and the legal system thus feeds from that to further its demands. A cycle that unfortunately will destroy the very thing that has made our country so wonderful.

So, when something is designed for the sheep market, the product must not allow the user fall to his own harm by operating the device to spec.

Cutting a diamond with a chainsaw is not using the device to spec, driving a car on road is using the device to spec. If the car's combination of power, balance, traction, etc. results in statistically excessive (not sure what the appropriate definition of excessive would be in this case) instances of catastrophic control loss, then I think there is a design issue that is counter to the requirement for items that are mass marketed to the sheep in our country.

It is a shame that this is the case, but regardless of how we became a country needing a shepherd, that is where we be.

 

[QUOTE=Ruprecht,Feb 21 2007, 12:53 AM] ...
The Perfect Storm, with the convenience (and sheep enabler) If a factory spec car coming out of a corner (or even on straight-away's according to some of the stories I have read here) is more likely to throw the backend (than other models) there is a design issue.

 

If you steeped on it just before the understeer, depending on the situation, the back end may just come around.