[We've talked at length about the whether and why of oversteer on the S2K. I thought it might be useful for us to share our theories and practices for how to react during one. This thread isn't meant to be a place to argue the same old points and it isn't meant to be about how to avoid a spin. Please make this a useful thread by staying closely to the topic. Thanks.]

You can recover from many oversteer skids that are the cause of a spin. Here's my take on how:
In a spin the rear of the car has less traction than the front. Three things will make it worse (uncontrollable):

• jerky steering input (causing loss of front traction sooner and further loss of any remaining rear traction) It is harder to regain traction on four tires than two.
  
• lifting the throttle quickly (which unloads the rear and decreases rear traction) When you have traction, lifting the throttle will tend to tighten your line. When you don't it will loosen it.
  
• planting the gas foot (which overpowers any remaining traction) In a FWD car you may want to plant your gas foot and power through the skid. This doesn't work for RWD.

So here's what to do at the onset of a spin (oversteer skid):

• Smoothly countersteer (steer in the direction of the rear wheel skid)
  
• PAUSE until you can see the car's reaction to your countersteer. THIS IS THE REAL SECRET. If you react too quickly to your initial steering input, you further decrease traction in back and break traction in front [skip to last step]. You'll probably pause about as long as it takes to calmly say "pause."
  
• Adjust your line by gently countering your countersteer after the all important PAUSE
  
• While all this is happening, you must feather the throttle to try to regain traction. Too little causes lift-throttle oversteer; too much causes power oversteer.
  
• When the above isn't working, push hard on the brake and clutch, pucker, and wait for a complete stop. "In a spin, both feet in."

It's worth practicing these skills frequently. Others: your thoughts and methods?

 

S-02s are expensive tyres to experiment any such stuff ... Get some cheaper tyres or wait till they're near the end of lifetime and learn how to drift then.

 

jschmidt,

very nice post; sounds right to me.

It's very important to get practice recovering from an incipient spin. The track is a good place for this, but a deserted, pole-free parking lot can also be used. At driver's education events I've done, the instructors have had me take the car through a turn with good run-off room at higher and higher speeds, until I start to lose rear traction, to both see what my reactions would be, and to give me a chance to get a feel for it. Very valuable.

The only spin I didn't recover from was during a track day in the pouring rain. I managed to do your steps 1-4 correctly, but I'm pretty sure there was no way to catch this one once it started. Once the back end was all the way around, though, I should have been on step 5, but I didn't get the clutch in, and wound up with the check engine light on. I did manage to brake smoothly as I slid backwards, though, after waiting for the car to straighten out and get off the line. I guess I need more practice with full spins!

 

I basically agree, but I think it's important to distinguish between the two main causes of oversteer when turning (in a RWD car): 1) excess throttle, and 2) excess speed. (In FWD cars it's almost always #2.) If you enter a spin because you mashed on the gas too much, then backing off the throttle will certainly help. If on the other hand you begin to spin simply because of the dynamic cornering forces generated by excess speed, then judicious throttle application may be your best bet.

Of course, any particular spin might result from a combination of these two causes, in which case the driver has to rely on instinct, knowledge of the car, and of course PRACTICE in order to recover.

 

or save tire wear by practicing in the rain.

i would add a corrollary to the lift-throttle oversteer part: instinctively stabbing the brakes at the onset oversteer is another way to send yourself spinning, as it also unloads the rear tires and decreases traction.

 

Good post Jim:

I think the important thing is it is something you've got to practise! Once you've mastered the principles (As much as something so unpredictable can be said to be truly mastered), you'll tend to do the right things instinctively). I was fortunate to do my skid training under instruction on a skidpan. I was talking to a young neighbour of mine who recently passed his test. The only 'Instruction' he's had about skids is verbally from his instructor! This must be the situation for the vast majority of new drivers. He drives a FWD Golf Deisel, but he could buy an S2000 tomorrow!!!

If you have any sort of a skidpan facility in your area see if you can use it. Bus companies usually have skidpan facilities for their drivers. Other than that a large wet carpark or similar as many have suggested.

The thing I learned in my skid training is that it is everyone's instinctive reaction to either brake or turn the steering wheel the wrong way or both. The consequeces are obvious but it doesn't matter when you're just practising!

Avoiding the skid in the first is place on public roads is always preferable no matter how proficient you are, but as you say that's been talked about enough!

 

In an oversteer condition, that is not power oversteer, I correct by rapid countersteering, then steering, then countersteering, etc. with each correction less than the previous. I do not pause at all. So far, no spins on the street or the track, but plenty of tail wagging. The rapid steering response sometimes breaks the front wheels loose, which stops the car from changing directions fast enough to spin the car.

 

Exactly. I have never lost rear traction due to too much throttle, I have lost it due to excess speed and due to throttle lift. In both cases, increasing throttle will transition weight to the rear and may give the rear tires sufficient grip to make the corner.

The trick, IMHO, is having the courage to hit the gas pedal when you feel out of control.

3 cents,
Tanq

 

Great post JSchmidt!!

I particularly like your recommended "pause."

I think one thing some folks not used to recovering from a rear end-out attitude might have a problem with is the question, how much do I countersteer? Aside from the intuitive, one thing to remember is to steer along the line you wish your car were still travelling. Example, you are in a right hand turn too fast, your rear end steps out 20 degrees off axis of the intended line of travel - your front wheels are now aligned 20 degrees to the right of your intended path. The proper countersteer is along the intended line, in this case, 20 degrees left (+the number of degrees off axis from negotiating the turn in the first place). More will result in over correction. Sawing at the wheel will result in a nasty oscillation - tail wagging does not assist recovery - smooth inputs and sudden prayer do.

Keep 'em pointed the right way.

 

The #1 MOST IMPORTANT tool in controlling a spin is your eyes and how you use them. Often when we lose the backend our eyes quickly look at the tree, wall, mailbox, car...whatever it may be that is now in our view. A lot of people look at what they're about to slam into and start bracing for impact, worrying about what's about to happen upon impact. Keep your eyes keenly focused on where you want the car to go, and you'll find your body will get you there. It sounds simple as hell, but this is how the nervous system works, and many people overlook this simple yet great technique when in a panic situation. The #1 NOT TO DO tactic is slamming on the brakes, but i'm sure everyone knows that already.