How good a track car is the S2000?
01-11-2002, 05:56 PM
#11
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I'm quite impressed by the Lotus Exige laptime
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On a track that does not need a car with too much top-speed (ie. speeds bellow 180kph) the Exige is one of the fastest cars available. It runs out of 'puff' over 180kph ... also, uphills don't do it any favours.
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BMW Z3 Coupe?
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It's like "M Coupe" but this one has a 3.0L engine (same engine as in a BMW 330). Seems like an awome car - same perfromance in the straighline as the S2000 but a lot better 'low revs' perfromance (ie. in gear). They clocked it an Nurburgring faster than the S2000 as well ... about 5secs quicker.
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It is interesting that a Viper did so well, but that a Corvette didn't. Does anyone know anything about this track
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The Vette always does poorly in Europe (or even here in Oz). I remember seeing one article where a Prelude lapped almost as fast as a Vette. And if you want a picture of the track layout then I'll send it to you. Though, it's got a shortish straigh, one ~120kph corner and then a lot of 70 - 100kph corners.
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An interesting tidbit: the SMG M3 was slower than the manual M3
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I've read a lot of reports (some by rececar drivers) that the SMG is still only a glorified automatic ... that is no matter how good it is, when it comes to the track then the manual is a lot better. Manual is 100% responsive while the SMG is not - there's always some lag in the shifts. Same in the straighline - manual M3s always beat SMG M3s by a couple of 10th. They rave about the SMG when driving in the city, but when on a twisty spiece of road or track then they wish for a manual.
I'm quite impressed by the Lotus Exige laptime
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On a track that does not need a car with too much top-speed (ie. speeds bellow 180kph) the Exige is one of the fastest cars available. It runs out of 'puff' over 180kph ... also, uphills don't do it any favours.
----------------------
BMW Z3 Coupe?
----------------------
It's like "M Coupe" but this one has a 3.0L engine (same engine as in a BMW 330). Seems like an awome car - same perfromance in the straighline as the S2000 but a lot better 'low revs' perfromance (ie. in gear). They clocked it an Nurburgring faster than the S2000 as well ... about 5secs quicker.
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It is interesting that a Viper did so well, but that a Corvette didn't. Does anyone know anything about this track
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The Vette always does poorly in Europe (or even here in Oz). I remember seeing one article where a Prelude lapped almost as fast as a Vette. And if you want a picture of the track layout then I'll send it to you. Though, it's got a shortish straigh, one ~120kph corner and then a lot of 70 - 100kph corners.
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An interesting tidbit: the SMG M3 was slower than the manual M3
----------------------
I've read a lot of reports (some by rececar drivers) that the SMG is still only a glorified automatic ... that is no matter how good it is, when it comes to the track then the manual is a lot better. Manual is 100% responsive while the SMG is not - there's always some lag in the shifts. Same in the straighline - manual M3s always beat SMG M3s by a couple of 10th. They rave about the SMG when driving in the city, but when on a twisty spiece of road or track then they wish for a manual.
01-11-2002, 06:06 PM
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Originally posted by bayarea408
do you guys think our S can out handle a Corvette?
do you guys think our S can out handle a Corvette?
This would be the only way to compare, any other comparison is made null and void by having two different drivers.
The driver makes the difference!
CRX-Si doing a faster lap time at Watkins Glen than a Viper? I've seen it.
That is the difference between two drivers. There is no way the CRX-Si should have been 1.05 seconds a lap faster, and yet it was.
So often it is not about how many horses there are under the hood, it is about how good the one human is behind the steering wheel.
01-11-2002, 06:20 PM
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Same day, same track, same driver? This would be the only way to compare, any other comparison is made null and void by having two different drivers. The driver makes the difference!
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All these times in the list are on the same track and by the same driver (Horst Von Saurma). That's why I thought the list was interesting. Though, lap-times were achieved at different times/coditions (always dry though) over a few years so there's room for variation ... from seeingsame car taken ther eon different days (by the same driver), the variance is somewhere up to 1sec per lap.
Same day, same track, same driver? This would be the only way to compare, any other comparison is made null and void by having two different drivers. The driver makes the difference!
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All these times in the list are on the same track and by the same driver (Horst Von Saurma). That's why I thought the list was interesting. Though, lap-times were achieved at different times/coditions (always dry though) over a few years so there's room for variation ... from seeingsame car taken ther eon different days (by the same driver), the variance is somewhere up to 1sec per lap.
01-11-2002, 06:31 PM
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OMG....Audi RS4, a 380bhp wagon and within the top 20
I definately want!
check out this Top Gear Video of the Rs4 Tiff Needel and RS4 in ACTION
I definately want!
check out this Top Gear Video of the Rs4 Tiff Needel and RS4 in ACTION
01-11-2002, 06:36 PM
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Don't get too crazy over numbers. Most all drivers will post better times in cars that are best matched to their individual styles. For example someone born and raised driving Porsches will have an easier time posting better times in one than they would in a Vette or some other front engined, rear drive car.
It is very interesting though.
It is very interesting though.
01-11-2002, 06:49 PM
#17
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Uugh, I think I just swallowed more than a few grains of salt with those lap times ;-)
Note, for example that a Viper GTS was only 0.9 seconds faster than an S2000. Even on a 80 second auto-x a Viper GTS may be a second faster than an S2K - with drivers extracting the most from the cars. On a course with significant straights and triple digit speeds like Hockeheim....I might be faster in an S2K than I would be in a Viper (at least for a few laps), but you see the point.
I think Mr Von Sarma either needs more seat time, or conditions just vary too much to make meaningful comparisons.
UL
Note, for example that a Viper GTS was only 0.9 seconds faster than an S2000. Even on a 80 second auto-x a Viper GTS may be a second faster than an S2K - with drivers extracting the most from the cars. On a course with significant straights and triple digit speeds like Hockeheim....I might be faster in an S2K than I would be in a Viper (at least for a few laps), but you see the point.
I think Mr Von Sarma either needs more seat time, or conditions just vary too much to make meaningful comparisons.
UL
01-11-2002, 08:21 PM
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by ultimate lurker
[B]Uugh, I think I just swallowed more than a few grains of salt with those lap times ;-)
Note, for example that a Viper GTS was only 0.9 seconds faster than an S2000.
[B]Uugh, I think I just swallowed more than a few grains of salt with those lap times ;-)
Note, for example that a Viper GTS was only 0.9 seconds faster than an S2000.
01-11-2002, 09:21 PM
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I agree with some of these other posts as to the variances in these tests. The S2000 did well I suppose but in my limited knowledge I think it could have posted a lot faster. Also, what is the difference betwen a BMW Z3 coupe an non coupe?? I see further down posted at a time of 1:20.5 a BMW Z3. Is there a european version of the Z3 in a coupe?
01-11-2002, 11:35 PM
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On a course with significant straights and triple digit speeds like Hockeheim..
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erm, I'm not sure where you're getting that but this is a tight track with a very short straight - you need something at least as fast as an S2000 to break into "triple digit speeds" and there are no "significant straight". As I said before (twice now in this thread) - on the main straight the S2000 manages about 170kph ... that is 106mph.
If you're interested, I'll send you a track map with the speeds of S2000 in each corner/straight on it.
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I think Mr Von Sarma either needs more seat time, or conditions just vary too much to make meaningful comparisons.
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Anything is possible, but Mr Von Sarma managed to get 8:10 from a Viper GTS at Nurburgring ... that is 1sec slower than 911 GT2 (993), Diablo SV and 2 secs off Ferrari 550.
It could also be that the Viper is not 'as good' on a short track with relatively slow speed corners (60 - 120kph). Who knows.
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Also, what is the difference betwen a BMW Z3 coupe an non coupe??
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You guys are not reading too well today :-) This question was asked early on in this thread and I answered it already. Here's the answer copied from further up:
It's like "M Coupe" but this one has a 3.0L engine (same engine as in a BMW 330). Seems like an awosome car - same perfromance in the straightline as the S2000 but a lot better 'low revs' performance (ie. in gear). They clocked it an Nurburgring faster than the S2000 as well ... about 5secs quicker.
On a course with significant straights and triple digit speeds like Hockeheim..
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erm, I'm not sure where you're getting that but this is a tight track with a very short straight - you need something at least as fast as an S2000 to break into "triple digit speeds" and there are no "significant straight". As I said before (twice now in this thread) - on the main straight the S2000 manages about 170kph ... that is 106mph.
If you're interested, I'll send you a track map with the speeds of S2000 in each corner/straight on it.
-------------------------------
I think Mr Von Sarma either needs more seat time, or conditions just vary too much to make meaningful comparisons.
-------------------------------
Anything is possible, but Mr Von Sarma managed to get 8:10 from a Viper GTS at Nurburgring ... that is 1sec slower than 911 GT2 (993), Diablo SV and 2 secs off Ferrari 550.
It could also be that the Viper is not 'as good' on a short track with relatively slow speed corners (60 - 120kph). Who knows.
-------------------------------
Also, what is the difference betwen a BMW Z3 coupe an non coupe??
-------------------------------
You guys are not reading too well today :-) This question was asked early on in this thread and I answered it already. Here's the answer copied from further up:
It's like "M Coupe" but this one has a 3.0L engine (same engine as in a BMW 330). Seems like an awosome car - same perfromance in the straightline as the S2000 but a lot better 'low revs' performance (ie. in gear). They clocked it an Nurburgring faster than the S2000 as well ... about 5secs quicker.