Hondas notorious for clanky shifts....
03-15-2006, 08:44 AM
#1
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Hondas notorious for clanky shifts....
i know the whole double clutching/rev matching gets beat to death here but i don't think this is the typcial question. over on another board i frequent the "what exactly is double clutching" question arised (as it does there every month) and an individual is claiming that in high rpm downshifts most all hondas he's ever owned have necessitated double clutching otherwise they tend to snag a tooth or two. i've piloted a few hondas and have never noticed such a thing but figured i'd see what everyone else's thoughts are.
"Happens for me, my brother, and our mutual friend who drives hondas. Dunno, it's not like they refuse to go into second it's just that they always 'snag' a few teeth when I go into second and I don't like that... You guys not even have that when you do a high rpm downshift to second?
when I double clutch it never happens... and I do it pretty much as fast as if I didn't double clutch; probably ~1 second from one gear, clutch/floorloudpedalspinup/clutch, lower gear...
Trust me, I'd rather not make an unnecessary extra movement if I didn't have to... guess I'm part of a serious minority here. "
"Happens for me, my brother, and our mutual friend who drives hondas. Dunno, it's not like they refuse to go into second it's just that they always 'snag' a few teeth when I go into second and I don't like that... You guys not even have that when you do a high rpm downshift to second?
when I double clutch it never happens... and I do it pretty much as fast as if I didn't double clutch; probably ~1 second from one gear, clutch/floorloudpedalspinup/clutch, lower gear...
Trust me, I'd rather not make an unnecessary extra movement if I didn't have to... guess I'm part of a serious minority here. "
03-15-2006, 08:48 AM
#2
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The S2000 tranny has a very precision mechanical snick-snick feel to it but by no means necitates double-clutching. A good tranny allows you to feel the gears while you're shifting rather than just ramming them together.
03-15-2006, 09:20 AM
#4
I observed with great amusement and fascination at this statement:
Suggest that the guy go to "HowStuffWorks" to find out what makes a modern day manual transmission tick. He obviously has a limited clue as to what's going on here. A manual tranny has "dog teeth" to engage one gear into another. These things either ALL go in or they ALL don't go in. You CAN'T snag a "few" teeth. What he's experiencing is the resistance of the blocker ring on certain types of transmissions when a downshift is attempted at too high an rpm. Or, in some instances, when in a hurry, he may be snagging another gear altogether when shifting. This is possible when the stick is not squarely lined up in the gate.
In our closed gated 6 speed manual, downshifting into any gear except first (more on this later) is easily done as witnessed by all the mechanical over-revs we see reported here. There is no effective blocker ring in any gear (except first) that would make double clutching a necessity.
The only time that S2000 owners really need to double clutch is ......................
1. If we choose to skip shift (NOT recommended as most people do it wrong) and this is purely for the safety and well being of the tranny.
2. Downshifting into first at a relatively high rpm. A double clutch is generally needed to defeat the blocker ring. I'm sure you've experienced this yourself. Try to downshift into 1st gear if you are going quite fast (say 35 mph) by just pushing in the clutch and trying to move the stick into first. Even if you blip the throttle, it's nearly impossible to do it till the car's speed coasts down to a much lower mph. Depending upon the age of the car, this lower speed can vary. I can force it into 1st at about 15 mph, but with a brand new car, this speed may be much lower. However, try it with a rev-match, double clutch and it's real easy to go into 1st at speed. Just make sure that speed won't bring you above redline after the shift.
Some people think that the S2000 tranny can be lumped in with "Hondas". This is erroneous. Not all manual Hondas have such a close gated 6 speed. A 5 speed or a 4 speed Honda doesn't act like our 6 speed in every aspect. Relating the two is a fundamental mistake.
it's just that they always 'snag' a few teeth when I go into second
In our closed gated 6 speed manual, downshifting into any gear except first (more on this later) is easily done as witnessed by all the mechanical over-revs we see reported here. There is no effective blocker ring in any gear (except first) that would make double clutching a necessity.
The only time that S2000 owners really need to double clutch is ......................
1. If we choose to skip shift (NOT recommended as most people do it wrong) and this is purely for the safety and well being of the tranny.
2. Downshifting into first at a relatively high rpm. A double clutch is generally needed to defeat the blocker ring. I'm sure you've experienced this yourself. Try to downshift into 1st gear if you are going quite fast (say 35 mph) by just pushing in the clutch and trying to move the stick into first. Even if you blip the throttle, it's nearly impossible to do it till the car's speed coasts down to a much lower mph. Depending upon the age of the car, this lower speed can vary. I can force it into 1st at about 15 mph, but with a brand new car, this speed may be much lower. However, try it with a rev-match, double clutch and it's real easy to go into 1st at speed. Just make sure that speed won't bring you above redline after the shift.
Some people think that the S2000 tranny can be lumped in with "Hondas". This is erroneous. Not all manual Hondas have such a close gated 6 speed. A 5 speed or a 4 speed Honda doesn't act like our 6 speed in every aspect. Relating the two is a fundamental mistake.
03-15-2006, 10:19 AM
#5
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[QUOTE=formulaofsuccess,Mar 15 2006, 11:44 AM] i know the whole double clutching/rev matching gets beat to death here but i don't think this is the typcial question.
03-15-2006, 10:25 AM
#6
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Many transmissions have cable linkages (my dad's Boxster S, for example. It has a VERY different shift feel from the S2000.) Therefore any feedback from the transmission gets rather muted. Perhaps this guy, his brother and their friend are simply unfamiliar with a transmission with a mechanical linkage rather than cable. It's not an issue - just a different feel. One I prefer, in fact.
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03-15-2006, 10:42 AM
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Err.... who the hell has ever said that Honda transmissions are clanky?
Honda transmissions are almost universally recognized for being the most precise and enjoyable transmissions to use, in their price range.
Honda transmissions are almost universally recognized for being the most precise and enjoyable transmissions to use, in their price range.
03-15-2006, 11:05 AM
#9
Clanky shifting? The S2000 is the most perfect manual gearbox ever... Double clutching works when needed, maybe for a transaxle Alfa or something. Never had to double clutch the S2000; rev matching yes, but that is for any car.
