[QUOTE]Originally posted by Russ
[B]

No, I don't think such an opinion is stupid.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DavidM
[B]They have sports car categories, cheaper sports car category, under $20k category etc etc.

If you are reffering to the Wheels "Car of the year" (COTY) then they do not have different categories - there is always just a single car that wins a COTY each year. And yes, every car is eligible as long as a certain sales figure is reached, it has a center lap speat belt and whater eother 'criteria' they have. Though cars like Ferrari, Porsche or Lotus will never win one - it is not geared that way .... COTY is geared towards the 'average' car and not a nitche market vehicles.

Perhaps you should read WHEELS or MM more (or maybe your opinions are better).

Again, this has nothing to do with my 'opinion' ... I donlt vote for COTY and did not state once what car should or shouldn't have now the COTY. Not sure why you brought up 'my opinion'.

Besides that I have and heave read every Motor and Wheels magazine in the last 10 years. I can't do much more in that regard.

Not getting personal, just every time I post something, they're never right.

quoute: "...I think you probably drive your S like if it was the king of the road?"

That sounds personal to me so you were getting personal. If you disagree with something I say that refute it ... I am all for finding out something new or was not aware off. Though, if you look at my original post here you posted

quoute: "The Mazda Miata was car of the year here at one stage, the S never reached that level. Guess it wasn't good enough"

So I replyed that it is was 'good enough to win several awards in 2000/2001. You were claiming incorect information so I corrected it.

I believe it was Honda's ploy to emulate the success that Mazda had with its roadster.

Honda's press-release (as well as marketing) for the S2000 was directly aimed at the Z3, Audi TT and Boxtser. They claimed superior thrills/performance at a lower price. Considering that the S2000 lobbed here at $70k and is now $75k, it was never ment to compete with an MX5 that costs now $42k.

Its clear that Honda put everything into the S, at a cost. By then, which car would you rather drive? A Porsche or a Honda?

I made exaclty that choise 1.5 years ago. To be honest I was going to buy a Boxster (2.7L) or a Boxster S and the S2000 was not on my shopping list as after my 1st drive I was not impressed and I loved (and still do) Boxsters. It took me a another test drive (on twisty back roads)

 

About the personal part, I have no worries about that.

np.

No doubt the S is a good car

Yes, it is .... but only in 'some' respect (ie. I fully understand why many people would not like it or want it). It is very much a single-focus vehicle. It is a closest thing to a race-car for the road this side of Elise and offers just enough 'luxuries' (or necessities) to satisfy someone like me.

Though, if a go-cart-for-the-road is not what you're after and drivinng the car 'enthusiasticaly' on regular basis is not your cup of tea then I'll be the 1st person to recomend something else. Very few people I'd recomend the S2000 to .... I have close friends with Elise, TVR, Z3 2.8, WRX, WRX-STi, HSV R8, S15 200SX and an MX5 (and even 300ZX) but I would only recommend the S2000 to 2 of them .... you really have to be a die-hard-racer (or wanna be) to really appreciate the S2000 and get out of it it's finer qualities.

NSX was a remarkable car. It outdid the 300zx which also came out in 1989.

Ironically NSX does not sell. They sell 1 - 2 NSXs per year here .... comapre that to around 900 911s sold each year here and around 100 Ferraries

$33k in 1989 was pretty high in my opinion. At that time, $20k was the average for the medium-big size cars (such as the Commodores).

I think you might have your prices a bit off. In '92 a brand new Toyota Paseo cost $23,500. Paseo was about as cheap as a Toyota Corolla. Hyundai Lantra cost just under $20,000 those days. MR2 (2.0L) cost $42,000 those days.

Though what is affordable to one person might not be to another so I take your point on that. Still, a couple of my friends got MX5s as their 1st 'new' car and got them as soon as they gained emplyement out of Uni. That's affordable IMHO.

Why were boxters, 911s, M3s or 500SL never worthy of the COTY award? I think the links I posted pretty much explains it. You are right to say that COTY look for affordability and practicality. Basically it all comes down to bang-per-buck. Which car gave the most B-P-B for that year?

I don't think 'bang' is an important requirement in the COTY. Afterall, how much 'bang' has a car like Honda Jazz (which came 2nd this year)? Even though, there's exceptions (ie. the MX5 and NSX), what they seem to look for is practicallity, ride, ease of picking up kids/shopping, reliabilty and cheapness of maintanance. Besides that versitality seems to be high on their books too. It seems like the car needs to be more of a 'famility' car to have a shot at COTY here.

I'm sure if the price of the S was lower, it would definitely get a mention in the COTY. Most definitely.

Maybe a mention ... but a win? Even someone who likes the S2000 (ie. me) can't see that happening even if they dropped $20k from the price. How can you go past something like WRX (or even STi) for the price? For $45 - 55k you get a car that is practical, safe and reasonably cheap. Not only that but it is quick and handles well on the track as well as the road (let alone dirt road), is good in the wet, can fit 5 people, lots of shopping/luggage etc. What has the S2000 to offer matched against those criteria? S2000 has about the same chance of wining a COTY that a Lotus Elise has.

Though, it has a better chance in a PCOTY (Performance Car of the Year) as it focuses more on the performance and does not care about luggage space and practicality that much. Still, I don't see how it can beat something like an EVO for roughly the same price.

 

If my memory serves correct, $20k was the average price of a standard car back in 1989. I'm basically thinking Holden and Ford. If I'm not wrong, $10k was the average price of family cars at one stage way before that, which gradually rose to $20k and now sits at $28k-$30k? Again, I'm only using Commodores and Falcons as the benchmark for the average car. Still, $33k was a lot of money back in 89 for the average Uni student! Hardly anyone could afford to buy the 300zx at that time! Today, I see S15s, M3s, GTR34s and even Boxters with P platers on at Uni sometimes (I go to the gym).

The MX-5 was not a practical car, yet it won because it was innovative. I could see the same for the S had it been released earlier, It could have beaten the lesser cars in terms of drivability and "fun factor". Price would have been a factor however, since its a Honda (Hondas were never cheap when new, but some had very poor after sale value).
Having said this, I don't think a convertible is going to win COTY ever again (though I don't mind if someone proves me wrong!).

I had seen a few S2000s in Melb, none in Syd (during my trip there). I think the markup price for the car is too high, or is that a good thing? Is there an S2K australian forum/website? Not that I'm interested, but a friend of mine (girl) is interested in buying a convertible.

BTW, Rick Yun drove the XKR Jaguar in "Die Another Day". Does anybody know much about this car?

 

well, the Bond XKR was packing good ol' 'murrican muscle - a big-block ford v-8. it was also retrofitted with an AWD system, which salvaged parts from mustangs and explorers i believe.

the 'real' XKR has a blown V-8 and roughly 370hp. I believe the car (XK8 - non-supercharged) was first introduced in 1996. The XKR was brought in late '90s, and the newest offering is the XKR Silverstone (bigger wheels, firmer suspension, same engine).

many would say the car is sex on wheels, dildo on wheels, etc. and i must say the shape of the car, esp. when viewed from the side, looks like a woman lying on her side.

the car was never designed to compete with lambos and hardcore ferraris. i think its primary competition were 911 carreras, benz v-8 coupes, the ferrari 456 (most beautiful car ever IMO), aston db7 non-vantages, and the sc430, among others. nevertheless, the xkr is a capable car, but much too plush and squishy to even come close to a 360, or even a 355.

i know the trans-am xkr's have been tearing it up... but those are only xkr's by the name badge...

 

I think the markup price for the car is too high, or is that a good thing?

'good thing'? ... I'd always rather pay less :-)

Is there an S2K australian forum/website? Not that I'm interested, but a friend of mine (girl) is interested in buying a convertible.

There is one on this site. Just go under "National communities" and you'll find "Australia S2000 owners" forum. That is where most of the on-line Ozies hang out.

BTW, Rick Yun drove the XKR Jaguar in "Die Another Day". Does anybody know much about this car?

The road version of the convertible retails here for around $240k. It is reasonably heavy (around 1800kg) and has a 4.2 supercharged V8 (298kW and 553Nm). They only come with auto but local magazines clock them in very low 6s for the 0-100kph and around 14secs for the 0-160kph. So pretty quick. They often comare it to the Masseati Spyder here.

 

Hey you know so much about Jaguars, I've never touch or saw them since leaving London and the Saints (TV version). English cars/companies are really poor, they would've had a good future had they done some planning.

I thought that Jaguar was kind of like the S, a small-mid convertible, wonder how they compare (David had already given me an insight, thanks mate!).

The Aston Martin on the other hand was simply awesome.

Well I guess Summer's gonna hit Melbourne soon.

 

vanquish... ha! what happened to the 'Vantage' suffix? that vanquish is nothing more than two ford taurus v-6s (built/tuned by cosworth nonetheless) with a tiptronic gearbox (although it has no name ), and very big wheels. if not for Die Another Day the vanquish would never have such high demand - it would've slowly disappeard, just like the DB7s before it.

i remember when ford bought them out, aston martin stopped making their magnificent hand-built V8 (the car, that is). the v8 vantage v600 was a monster. that car 'wears heritage on its sleeve,' to quote Tiff Needell. and with a 5.3-liter twin-blown V8, it had power to spare.

but now we have the lowly DB7 (albeit the GT and Zagato are pretty cars)... too bad they're massively overweight. think of a sl55 but with a 500lb fat woman on the roof (but why would she ever buy a car that small and ugly? ), and you have a db7.

i would never refuse a vanquish, but i'd never buy it.

 

I laughed at the CD road test, it's the most ludicrist thing I've ever seen aside from the reality T.V show. Let put something really stupid out there and we will draw readers. Take a (true)roadster AND TURN IT INTO A COUPE AND MAKE IT MORE EXPENSIVE, THEN DON'T BRAKE IN A NEW ENGINE AND DO DRAG RUNS WITH IT. How stupid is that!! Then if you add up scores in the score box and then read the discalimer which state that the total score does not reflect the final score and that is completely subjective, what is that about, then have the Mustang beat th S2K by 1 point, on the strength of what a drag race?!!! and Ford have the sam fit and finish as the S2K??? another farce, they even said that the ford have the same outdated dash set up it always had. These guys are tripping over themsleves on what they say and what they mean.

 

I read the comparison in C&D and I agree with you in all points. Let's see if they put out the 350Z in a convertable and then compare them. The 350 Z would have been a lot faster if it wasn't for the speed brake door handles.