Engine has seized, any help?
04-04-2001, 07:48 PM
#61
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cde, I have to add my two cents to say I agree completely with elviscos that you have to move ahead as if you have no relief.
I think the customer service people at AHM are being good to you, but, you don't have anything firm from AHM management that they will make sure this comes right for you.
Ask customer service for a letter or fax from management at AHM saying they understand that either AHM or their franchised dealer, Academy dealership will be responsible for the repair. Lacking that, you still need your attorney fighting for you. Also, ask them for a loaner or compensation since you are without the use of your car now and for what will AT LEAST be a month. Your car is depreciating with no value to you while they point fingers at each other.
If I were president of AHM and I read the details related in this thread, and confirmed them for myself; I would call you myself and tell you that AHM would pay for the repair at your current dealer and take care of settling with Academy Honda themselves.
That's the kind of company I think AHM is. I think if the right people know about your problem, that will happen.
Honda car, Honda service, Honda filter, Honda oil. You did your part by checking the oil. You could have done nothing to prevent this. Honda could have.
If you had taken your car to some quick-lube joint for the oil change, I can see where Honda would be okay to cover their own rear and wait for a final determination. But you dealt only with AHM or their franchised dealers. No one is now claiming that YOU damaged the oil filter or the engine. Since you stuck with them, they should help you out too.
I think the customer service people at AHM are being good to you, but, you don't have anything firm from AHM management that they will make sure this comes right for you.
Ask customer service for a letter or fax from management at AHM saying they understand that either AHM or their franchised dealer, Academy dealership will be responsible for the repair. Lacking that, you still need your attorney fighting for you. Also, ask them for a loaner or compensation since you are without the use of your car now and for what will AT LEAST be a month. Your car is depreciating with no value to you while they point fingers at each other.
If I were president of AHM and I read the details related in this thread, and confirmed them for myself; I would call you myself and tell you that AHM would pay for the repair at your current dealer and take care of settling with Academy Honda themselves.
That's the kind of company I think AHM is. I think if the right people know about your problem, that will happen.
Honda car, Honda service, Honda filter, Honda oil. You did your part by checking the oil. You could have done nothing to prevent this. Honda could have.
If you had taken your car to some quick-lube joint for the oil change, I can see where Honda would be okay to cover their own rear and wait for a final determination. But you dealt only with AHM or their franchised dealers. No one is now claiming that YOU damaged the oil filter or the engine. Since you stuck with them, they should help you out too.
04-06-2001, 04:25 PM
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Latest update-
The woman with Honda's customer service has been my main point of contact. She has been trying to get in touch with the district service manager. According to her, he has the authority to have Honda fix my car (of course he won't do so without much thought and talking to his bosses). She finally got in touch with him today, and he gave me another number for someone else at Academy Honda, the parts and service manager, someone who may be more willing to accept some responsibility or at least try harder at resolving my problem. When I talked to him, he took the same standpoint as my last POC at Academy, except he was much more polite and understanding. But nonetheless, the phone call was pointless. So according to the customer service manager, the issue has been raised a couple levels, in her chain and also in the district service manager's chain. She thinks they should be able to come to some sort of a decision by Monday...
Well, in case not, this weekend, I'll be preparing a couple letters for the higher ups at AHM and Honda customer care center to be sent out starting Monday. I also have an appointment with a lawyer to get some guidance, especially when it comes to what I should be entitled to in terms of compensation and the best way of asking for and getting it. If those who already have experience have any advice, I'm open ears.
The woman with Honda's customer service has been my main point of contact. She has been trying to get in touch with the district service manager. According to her, he has the authority to have Honda fix my car (of course he won't do so without much thought and talking to his bosses). She finally got in touch with him today, and he gave me another number for someone else at Academy Honda, the parts and service manager, someone who may be more willing to accept some responsibility or at least try harder at resolving my problem. When I talked to him, he took the same standpoint as my last POC at Academy, except he was much more polite and understanding. But nonetheless, the phone call was pointless. So according to the customer service manager, the issue has been raised a couple levels, in her chain and also in the district service manager's chain. She thinks they should be able to come to some sort of a decision by Monday...
Well, in case not, this weekend, I'll be preparing a couple letters for the higher ups at AHM and Honda customer care center to be sent out starting Monday. I also have an appointment with a lawyer to get some guidance, especially when it comes to what I should be entitled to in terms of compensation and the best way of asking for and getting it. If those who already have experience have any advice, I'm open ears.
04-06-2001, 04:48 PM
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I know its easier for those not involved to give advice...
But i agree with the guys, you should keep putting pressure. I too have been a victim of large corporation, "we are trying to get in touch with" play. They are always "trying" to get in touch with other people and nothing happens, this can drag on for months.
The only way you can make them, "find" each other and "get in touch more easily" is if you turn up the heat on your end. Do whatever you can and do it now.
Good luck, we will all be standing by you.
But i agree with the guys, you should keep putting pressure. I too have been a victim of large corporation, "we are trying to get in touch with" play. They are always "trying" to get in touch with other people and nothing happens, this can drag on for months.
The only way you can make them, "find" each other and "get in touch more easily" is if you turn up the heat on your end. Do whatever you can and do it now.
Good luck, we will all be standing by you.
04-06-2001, 08:03 PM
#65
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cde, the only person at Academy Honda who can accept responsibility is the owner. Ask to meet with him. If that fails, ask in writing. If that fails, ask your attorney to ask to meet with his attorney to help prevent you having to sue them.
See if your attorney thinks this is a good approach.
Another thought. You really won't know who is responsible until your car's engine is disassembled. You might let them know that you plan to repossess your car AND your oil filter for the purpose of taking to a forensic auto mechanic. I have know doubt that somewhere between New Jersey and Connecticut there is a forensic auto mechanic who, for a large fee, will analyze your car. Let AHM and Academy know that your suit will include the costs of such a mechanic.
Perhaps Scott at King Motorsport in Chicago knows someone in the New York-New Jersey-Connecticut area who would be competent at taking apart and diagnosing your F20C's problem.
Another thought, let them know that if you don't have a resolution by April 30th, you and EVERYONE you know will begin calling into Click and Clack until you get on the air. When you get on the air, you'll let them sort it out, but it will be one hellova black eye. Let them know that you know 10,000 Naval officers who have volunteered to help you dial. Be sure you tell them that you will say nothing but the facts, and the facts speak for themselves.
You need to be talking to the dealer's owner or owners. You need to be talking to higher management at AHM, not just customer service or the district manager.
You need someone to take apart the engine and decide why it seiezed. The person who does it has to be an expert and NOT Academy Honda.
Even though the oil filter and its leak has been blamed for your seizure, you don't know for sure until an expert looks inside the F20C. You don't want some else doing that.
I can't understand why AHM doesn't fix the engine and take care of assessing responsibility to its own oil filter, or to its own F20C or to his franchised dealer. AHM should protect you.
Sorry to be so hot. I think you are doing right. I don't think you will be "screwed" in the end. However, if you don't have the District Manager's assurance by Monday evening that this thing is headed toward (1) your car being fixed like new AND (2) at no cost to you AND (3) with some compensation to you for lost use of your car (not to mention anxiety about who will take responsiblity for the loss).
See if your attorney thinks this is a good approach.
Another thought. You really won't know who is responsible until your car's engine is disassembled. You might let them know that you plan to repossess your car AND your oil filter for the purpose of taking to a forensic auto mechanic. I have know doubt that somewhere between New Jersey and Connecticut there is a forensic auto mechanic who, for a large fee, will analyze your car. Let AHM and Academy know that your suit will include the costs of such a mechanic.
Perhaps Scott at King Motorsport in Chicago knows someone in the New York-New Jersey-Connecticut area who would be competent at taking apart and diagnosing your F20C's problem.
Another thought, let them know that if you don't have a resolution by April 30th, you and EVERYONE you know will begin calling into Click and Clack until you get on the air. When you get on the air, you'll let them sort it out, but it will be one hellova black eye. Let them know that you know 10,000 Naval officers who have volunteered to help you dial. Be sure you tell them that you will say nothing but the facts, and the facts speak for themselves.
You need to be talking to the dealer's owner or owners. You need to be talking to higher management at AHM, not just customer service or the district manager.
You need someone to take apart the engine and decide why it seiezed. The person who does it has to be an expert and NOT Academy Honda.
Even though the oil filter and its leak has been blamed for your seizure, you don't know for sure until an expert looks inside the F20C. You don't want some else doing that.
I can't understand why AHM doesn't fix the engine and take care of assessing responsibility to its own oil filter, or to its own F20C or to his franchised dealer. AHM should protect you.
Sorry to be so hot. I think you are doing right. I don't think you will be "screwed" in the end. However, if you don't have the District Manager's assurance by Monday evening that this thing is headed toward (1) your car being fixed like new AND (2) at no cost to you AND (3) with some compensation to you for lost use of your car (not to mention anxiety about who will take responsiblity for the loss).
04-09-2001, 01:26 PM
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Today's news:
From Honda customer care rep:
David Michael will begin to work on the car. No estimated time until completion of repair just yet. One of my questions to her, "Any progress on figuring out who will have to pay for the repair?" Her answer: "It won't be you," which sounded pretty good to me.
I asked about an extended warranty as compensation for my troubles; she said she couldn't offer that at this time. She will of course reimburse me for the towing and the service tech will look at any damage to the front spoiler due to the flat bed tow truck.
So this may come to a close soon. Who knows, I may be at Asheville (only have a couple more days to register). I have to say, the last two Mondays have brought bad news, but things are starting to look up.
Chris
From Honda customer care rep:
David Michael will begin to work on the car. No estimated time until completion of repair just yet. One of my questions to her, "Any progress on figuring out who will have to pay for the repair?" Her answer: "It won't be you," which sounded pretty good to me.
I asked about an extended warranty as compensation for my troubles; she said she couldn't offer that at this time. She will of course reimburse me for the towing and the service tech will look at any damage to the front spoiler due to the flat bed tow truck.
So this may come to a close soon. Who knows, I may be at Asheville (only have a couple more days to register). I have to say, the last two Mondays have brought bad news, but things are starting to look up.
Chris
04-09-2001, 01:31 PM
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in terms of repairs:
A couple people mentioned, making sure they purged the air out of the collant system. Fo r a repairman, service tech, service dealer, is that a no brainer, or something I should definitely mention while they are working on it, or when i go pick it up.
i assume it is not something particular to just our cars. every car needs coolant (the S2K just might need it more).
answers or advice? I guess it can't hurt to remind them.
Chris
A couple people mentioned, making sure they purged the air out of the collant system. Fo r a repairman, service tech, service dealer, is that a no brainer, or something I should definitely mention while they are working on it, or when i go pick it up.
i assume it is not something particular to just our cars. every car needs coolant (the S2K just might need it more).
answers or advice? I guess it can't hurt to remind them.
Chris
04-09-2001, 01:53 PM
#68
Registered User
Originally posted by cde
A couple people mentioned, making sure they purged the air out of the coolant system.
A couple people mentioned, making sure they purged the air out of the coolant system.
Tell the service manager that Barry in Wyoming and Rowland in New Hampshire both had improperly filled coolant systems and you know it is tricky to bleed out the air.
Check the feel of the steering wheel when you pick it up. Mine had free play from an improperly torqued bolt.
Check the feel of the shifter to be sure it feels correct.
Remember that this is a full time five day job that calls for removing the exhaust system, the transmission and part of the steering to get to the engine. Not getting it 100% right the first time might be expected, but you want everything that isn't right documented immediately and repaired immediately.
Expect it to take a week to get all the parts before they start.
Now the good part. I've got almost 1,000 miles on my new engine (new short block) and it is TERRIFFIC. I can't tell the difference from brand new. I've got great power, no unusual sounds, no oil burning and my transmission is buttery smooth. No complaints.
I think you got just what you wanted from AHM. They'll fix it and either they will pay for it or they will see that the dealer does.
KUDOS for American Honda Motors. That is first class. Also, remember, they never blamed you.
Best of luck with the rest. It is all downhill from here.
Oh yes. One last thought. Ask them to look inside the cylinders after they take the head off and tell you what they see. You might print out Jason Saini's pictures of his engine apart and see if they see anything like that.
04-09-2001, 02:04 PM
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cde,
Barry has it right! I mentioned it to the service tech/service manager and I still got mine back not done correctly. Of course I enjoyed telling them "I told you to do that in the first place." Especially when I showed them the form where I had the service person add it to the order.
Barry has it right! I mentioned it to the service tech/service manager and I still got mine back not done correctly. Of course I enjoyed telling them "I told you to do that in the first place." Especially when I showed them the form where I had the service person add it to the order.