Engine has seized, any help?
03-26-2001, 10:33 AM
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This is my first post, and unfortunately it is really bad news. Wondering if anyone has any advice. End result is the engine is seized. Dealer is claiming a hole in the oil filter, oil leaks out causing the engine to seize, thus no covered under warranty.
Here's story: I bought the car May 2000. When the saleperson was showing me the car when I bought it, he removed the oil filler cap looking for the dip stick, but then replaced it. But obviously not securing the cap enough. After about 2500 miles of breaking the car in, I hear a rattling noise coming from the engine. A friend notices that the oil cap is missing. I buy a generic cap to replace the missing cap, check the oil levels. Everything seems to be ok, except the rattling noise is still there; very faint noise. When I bring it back to the dealership, I tell them about what happened, they replace the cap, change the oil, and clean up the engine. They say everything is fine and deny any rattling noise.
After another 1000 miles of still hearing the rattling noise, I bring it to another dealer, this time taking out a technician, so I can point out the noise while driving the car. I also tell him about the whole oil cap mishap. Upon inspection, they find the original cap wedged above the transmission, which they had to drop to remove the cap. I was able to get the original dealership to reimburse me for that.
So all that was around last October. After that it has pretty much been kept in storage for the winter, in my parents' garage in NJ. I'd take it out now and then, every time I'd visit them, about every third weekend. This last weekend, hoping to take the car out of storage and back with me to Connecticut, I took it out for a drive on Saturday. I start to hear a strange tap tap tap noise anytime the engine is above 3000 RPM. I call the second dealership and tell them that I want them to look at it. They say just drop it off Sunday night and they'll look at it Monday. So I drive it straight back to my parents place, less than 10 miles. On Sunday afternoon, while I'm driving the car to the dealer, the car stalls and won't start up. I have car towed to the dealer.
Today, they say I had a damaged oil filter, which leaked oil and caused the engine to seize. I need a new engine, about $7200 for the engine and $2000 for labor. Not covered under warranty since it was a bad oil filter. They say they can see traces of where leaking oil was blown back towards the exhaust. I didn't see any pools of oil in my parents' garage and the oil light on the dash never came on. I also checked the oil level on Saturday and it was at the H (High?) mark.
So what I'm trying to do is get someone to pay for a new engine. The second dealership, the ones who have the car now, won't pay for it, because they say its not covered under warranty. I'm trying to get the other dealer, where I bought the car, to pay for it, since they did the oil change. I can see them saying it wasn't their fault and must have happened while on the road, by a rock or something. Which basically leaves me in the dust. I'd prefer to have the second dealer do the repairs, since my confidence in the first is pretty much shot.
Anybody have any advice? I've been reading about the problems other have had with a faulty short block and losing oil (searched threads with "oil leak"). I'm not a car mechanic type buff, so I'm not sure if it could be that same problem. So any info is helpful. Thanks.
Chris
Here's story: I bought the car May 2000. When the saleperson was showing me the car when I bought it, he removed the oil filler cap looking for the dip stick, but then replaced it. But obviously not securing the cap enough. After about 2500 miles of breaking the car in, I hear a rattling noise coming from the engine. A friend notices that the oil cap is missing. I buy a generic cap to replace the missing cap, check the oil levels. Everything seems to be ok, except the rattling noise is still there; very faint noise. When I bring it back to the dealership, I tell them about what happened, they replace the cap, change the oil, and clean up the engine. They say everything is fine and deny any rattling noise.
After another 1000 miles of still hearing the rattling noise, I bring it to another dealer, this time taking out a technician, so I can point out the noise while driving the car. I also tell him about the whole oil cap mishap. Upon inspection, they find the original cap wedged above the transmission, which they had to drop to remove the cap. I was able to get the original dealership to reimburse me for that.
So all that was around last October. After that it has pretty much been kept in storage for the winter, in my parents' garage in NJ. I'd take it out now and then, every time I'd visit them, about every third weekend. This last weekend, hoping to take the car out of storage and back with me to Connecticut, I took it out for a drive on Saturday. I start to hear a strange tap tap tap noise anytime the engine is above 3000 RPM. I call the second dealership and tell them that I want them to look at it. They say just drop it off Sunday night and they'll look at it Monday. So I drive it straight back to my parents place, less than 10 miles. On Sunday afternoon, while I'm driving the car to the dealer, the car stalls and won't start up. I have car towed to the dealer.
Today, they say I had a damaged oil filter, which leaked oil and caused the engine to seize. I need a new engine, about $7200 for the engine and $2000 for labor. Not covered under warranty since it was a bad oil filter. They say they can see traces of where leaking oil was blown back towards the exhaust. I didn't see any pools of oil in my parents' garage and the oil light on the dash never came on. I also checked the oil level on Saturday and it was at the H (High?) mark.
So what I'm trying to do is get someone to pay for a new engine. The second dealership, the ones who have the car now, won't pay for it, because they say its not covered under warranty. I'm trying to get the other dealer, where I bought the car, to pay for it, since they did the oil change. I can see them saying it wasn't their fault and must have happened while on the road, by a rock or something. Which basically leaves me in the dust. I'd prefer to have the second dealer do the repairs, since my confidence in the first is pretty much shot.
Anybody have any advice? I've been reading about the problems other have had with a faulty short block and losing oil (searched threads with "oil leak"). I'm not a car mechanic type buff, so I'm not sure if it could be that same problem. So any info is helpful. Thanks.
Chris
03-26-2001, 11:05 AM
#4
Registered User
Hmm, if it was damage to the oil filter you should check your car insurance policy. I don't know, but this might cover this sort of damage since it could have easily been caused by a piece of metal left by another car or if you inspect the filter it could have been vandalism of some sort. Who knows.
I recommend you acquire the damage oil filter and go to your insurance agent and suggest that you were involved in an accident but didn't know it.
-B
I recommend you acquire the damage oil filter and go to your insurance agent and suggest that you were involved in an accident but didn't know it.
-B
03-26-2001, 11:15 AM
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Isn't the engine bay or at least the nose covered on the bottom with a panel of some type? I don't have one yet, but I've seen pictures of where there is a panel that sits right before the engine, thus, I don't think a rock big enough would be able to pop up into the engine bay and cause damage...I think I would have the car looked at by the first dealership first...You said that there was a problem with a car for soo long, and it better be covered! The thing is, be very polite with them. The reason I say this is because the will be more inclined to listen to (and help) someone who is calm and rational rather than someone screaming and yelling at their face. Fact is, you had it serviced, complained about the noise multiple times, and when the car fails, they claim it's your fault, something you did.
Best of Luck to you on this one, please keep us posted!
Best of Luck to you on this one, please keep us posted!
03-26-2001, 11:16 AM
#7
Registered User
cde - This situation really sucks. Let me summarize your statements:
1) Car purchased May 2000 with non-secured oil filler cap.
2) You drove for 2500 miles and then realized the filler was missing. Upon inspection, oil was not low. Rattling noise present, dealer did not hear it (or did they say it was "normal")?
3) Oct 2000 3500 miles. Rattling noise still present, original cap found above transmission - did the 2nd dealer confirm the noise? Could the errant cap have couses it?
4) March 2001 - Saturday - Heard strange tap-tap noise. Was this different that the noise previously heard? Oil level confirmed to be full.
5) Sunday - On drive to dealer engine stalls. Dealer claims the oil filter was damaged and low oil level caused seizure.
You may not want to hear this, but here goes. If the reason the engine seized is loss of oil from a damaged oil filter you are in a bad position. You state that the oil was full on Saturday night, so if the damage occurred on your drive to the dealer you wouldn't see oil in the garage.
However, there is a lot of information that may point to a different cause. It is strange that you measure full oil level on Saturday night and that the dealer cites the cause of engine failure on Sunday as low oil level due to filter damage. I would consider having the car towed to another independent garage for a second opinion. If, as you suspect, the engine failure is related to the early symptoms you describe, you have a good case. Also, there have been several engines that have failed due to scoring in the #4 cylinder. If it is indeed a #4 cylinder failure, you have a pretty strong case for a free replacement. I'm sure Barry will chime in here. Even if that isn't the failure mode, you have a lot of circumstantial evidence to attempt to pressure Honda for a "goodwill" engine replacement. I would make SURE that you obtain the oil filter that the 2nd dealer claims contributed to the engine failure
In any case, don't give up until you feel satisfied with the solution. Good luck and let us know how it turns out
[Edited by CoralDoc on 03-26-2001 at 12:19 PM]
1) Car purchased May 2000 with non-secured oil filler cap.
2) You drove for 2500 miles and then realized the filler was missing. Upon inspection, oil was not low. Rattling noise present, dealer did not hear it (or did they say it was "normal")?
3) Oct 2000 3500 miles. Rattling noise still present, original cap found above transmission - did the 2nd dealer confirm the noise? Could the errant cap have couses it?
4) March 2001 - Saturday - Heard strange tap-tap noise. Was this different that the noise previously heard? Oil level confirmed to be full.
5) Sunday - On drive to dealer engine stalls. Dealer claims the oil filter was damaged and low oil level caused seizure.
You may not want to hear this, but here goes. If the reason the engine seized is loss of oil from a damaged oil filter you are in a bad position. You state that the oil was full on Saturday night, so if the damage occurred on your drive to the dealer you wouldn't see oil in the garage.
However, there is a lot of information that may point to a different cause. It is strange that you measure full oil level on Saturday night and that the dealer cites the cause of engine failure on Sunday as low oil level due to filter damage. I would consider having the car towed to another independent garage for a second opinion. If, as you suspect, the engine failure is related to the early symptoms you describe, you have a good case. Also, there have been several engines that have failed due to scoring in the #4 cylinder. If it is indeed a #4 cylinder failure, you have a pretty strong case for a free replacement. I'm sure Barry will chime in here. Even if that isn't the failure mode, you have a lot of circumstantial evidence to attempt to pressure Honda for a "goodwill" engine replacement. I would make SURE that you obtain the oil filter that the 2nd dealer claims contributed to the engine failure
In any case, don't give up until you feel satisfied with the solution. Good luck and let us know how it turns out
[Edited by CoralDoc on 03-26-2001 at 12:19 PM]
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03-26-2001, 11:45 AM
#8
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I can hear the dealer now. "Oh I can't find the filter somebody must have thrown it out". 
03-26-2001, 12:40 PM
#9
Registered User
If it was indeed a hole in the filter that was caused by something on the road, I can't imagine that that would be covered any differently by insurance than a cracked windshield or rock damage to the paint; call them, explain what the dealer says happened, and ask them to send an appraiser to your car.
If the appraiser says that isn't how it happened, you now at least have an expert opinion that your dealership rep is full of shit. If it was indeed caused by a road hazard, then your insurance kicks in, less your deductible.
Frankly, the tap-tap-tap screams of cylinder #4 to me, but what do I know? Additionally, if your car had been running without oil, you would have had any number of idiot lights on the dash to say so (temp gauge, check engine, etc) before it seized or at least AS it did.
I say you should get that second opinion, and at an independant garage, not another Honda dealer with a vested interest...
If the appraiser says that isn't how it happened, you now at least have an expert opinion that your dealership rep is full of shit. If it was indeed caused by a road hazard, then your insurance kicks in, less your deductible.
Frankly, the tap-tap-tap screams of cylinder #4 to me, but what do I know? Additionally, if your car had been running without oil, you would have had any number of idiot lights on the dash to say so (temp gauge, check engine, etc) before it seized or at least AS it did.
I say you should get that second opinion, and at an independant garage, not another Honda dealer with a vested interest...