xviper

Indecision has given us an excellent reference. If you read this part again, you must imagine in your mind the time frame involved. Yes, you are blipping the gas as you are passing through neutral BUT because everything should be happening very fast, you are still "blipping" once it is in gear. If you are not quite that fast in your technique then the key is to blip the gas at a point in time such that your revs are still elevated at the moment the clutch re-engages in the new lower gear. Can you see the subtlty? It is NOT when you begin the blip but when you finish it. The engine speed must be high enough to "match" the next lower gear speed (which is dictated by the its relationship to the final drive gear or road speed.) That's why it's call "rev matching".
Also, if you read the part dealing with double clutching, it says that you must re-engage the gas when you re-engage the clutch. In effect, if you are a bit too slow, you are blipping the gas twice - once the get from neutral to the lower gear and again to get the revs back up when the clutch re-engages for that lower gear. If you blip it hard enough and high enough AND you can get the stick into the next lower gear & release the clutch, the revs won't drop too low and you'll only need to do it once. Clear as mud, huh?

Indecision

well said.

Keep in mind that if you are new at this, start out one step at a time. You still have to learn how much gas to blip by - every car is different. Don't forget to only try it if there's no car in front of you, otherwise you might be too busy and rear end the person instead of braking.

And let me stress again that these are unecessary troubles unless you enjoy spirited driving and would like to learn something new

sfphinkterMC

Indecision.....yes!!! i just got back from thunderhill and went back to double clutch downshifting. i'm glad there is another S driver who is aware how fantanstic downshifts are in the car with the technique. let the pseudo-knowledgeble tech-nazis be ignorant
and inept in their fantasy world of inadequate psychomotor skills.
Its an initially complex skill to learn, so people have rationallized this myth that its not useful. i was of that former school myself.
Ironically, i started to learn double clutching the S in preparation
of a spec formula racing series with 5 speed sequential gearboxes. I quickly realized how much better it was EVEN IN A CAR WITH SYNCHROS and was blown away. the ironic part is there is no neutral gate in a sequential box.....u physically can't double clutch them!!!!!(turns out u mostly don't even use the clutch anyway, up or downshifts).

BTW, single clutch blips rev match only, u are only approximating the same speeds. double clutching exactly matchs gear speeds.
it also is fun, enhances the rhythmn of shifting and most traditional corners and brake zones give u more than enuff time to
complete downshifts which will be smoother. i would still occasionally reserve single clutching when a super quick downshift is needing in a unexpected manner in race traffic or such, and in sections of closely linked turns which require a downshift immediately after previous higher gear selection.

also, if your clutch breaks or u feel like playing, u can shift up and down all six gears without even using the clutch....but u are essentially doing a "double clutch" by blipping in neutral.

Indecision.....u r right on.

tiberius

Agree this was excellent, but I'm still not clear on why the step of shifting into neutral, engaging the clutch (release pedal), blipping the gas, and then dinengaging the clutch to upshift is necessary.

Can't you just blip the gas with the clutch pedal depressed (clutch disengaged) since the car is basically in neutral or is it really necessary to put the car into neutral to match revs?

xviper

I think it's generally agreed that double clutching or rev matching for an "upshift" is unnecessary. By the simple act of throttling down on an upshift, you are essentially rev matching. If you don't throttle down, then this would BE equivalent to a high rev clutch drop and for this car, we all know it's NOT good.
Re: your second ? - Only if you are doing a higher speed downshift into 1st. Downshifting into any other gear, the synchros can handle it perfectly well. 1st gear is different than any other gear in that it is a very high ratio and it gives the largest mph range of any gear so the synchro in conjuction with the "blocker ring" makes it harder engage at higher road speeds. Simply having your clutch down is NOT quite like being in neutral. Your tranny is still being driven by the final drive (or rear wheels). You blip the throttle in neutral for 2 reasons: 1) To match the tranny speed with the incoming 1st gear so it can be engaged smoothly and easily and 2) To match the engine revs with the final drive gear so you don't lurch due to engine braking. If you are not fast enough in pushing the clutch in, shifting into 1st and releasing the clutch after that first blip, the engine slows down too much and you'll have to put in another blip to accomplish (2).

Carlson

[QUOTE]Originally posted by xviper
[B]- Only if you are doing a higher speed downshift into 1st.

xviper

[QUOTE]Originally posted by carlson
[B]



Define "higher speed" please. > 20 mph? Thanks.

tiberius

Thanks X Viper - and sorry - my question was reagrding upshifting. My mistype.

S2K Newbie

Instead of "blipping" (tapping the gas pedal for about a half-second, as I understand it) when I downshift, I:

Take foot off gas pedal,
Press clutch pedal in,
Shift into new gear,
Simultaneously let clutch pedal out to half-way point (slippage) while I slowly depress gas pedal to match RPMs until it feels right,
Let clutch pedal all the way out and keep pressing the gas pedal to accelerate out of the downshift.

Heck, I do that even when I upshift; I match revs at the clutch slippage point, because that gives me the greatest feel of when the revs are matched and I can let the clutch out.

I'm a self-taught (on a '96 Integra GSR) stickshifter, so I have no idea if that's right or not. Is that causing unnecessary clutch wear?

Regarding blipping through neutral, I don't even begin to press the gas until after the shift. I don't understand how you can blip as you pass through neutral unless you don't take your foot off the gas to downshift, its too fast.

rmmmm

For those of you who want a good explanation of synchro- mesh and how it works, check out :
http://www.howstuffworks.com/transmission4.htm

rmmmm