Bieg

Prior to this board soliciting donations for membership I would not have held out much hope for a section to air vendor complaints as the vendors were the main source of income needed to support the running of this board.

Since memberships are being sold now this situation has changed. Before it used to be a case of "knowing which side of the bread the butter is on" but now the butter is on both sides so to speak.

I DO believe it is important for the membership to know when there are business problems between members and vendors and how the vendor plans to resolve the problem.

I don't think this "trial by forum" is all that productive,... in fact I think it is destructive. The only people that should be discussing this is the vendor and the member. We should be allowed to observe the proceedings for our own future reference but we shouldn't really be jumping on the bandwagon to fan the flames. The fact that the conflict is public should be incentive enough for the vendor to want to resolve this situation.

c-three I believe one of the benefits of membership should be a fair way to post problems any of us are having with vendors on this site. I think it is also only fair to the vendors who help support this site to have this process restricted to only the principles involved to avoid this public tar and feathering. It also is only fair that members are made aware (possibly by the manner I suggested) of any member/vendor conflicts.

hopefully a fair and equitable arangement can be created where all of the above goals are achieved.

cthree

Subjecting sponsors to some form of subjective, arbitrary and potentially abusive form of measurement is TOTALLY unfair to them.

I mean just think about it. Sponsors and them alone can be given a bad rating by anyone for any reason whether or not they have even bought anything. Resellers who aren't sponsors are not subject to this criticism. If I were a reseller sponsoring S2KI and being subject to a public stoning is the last thing I'd do.

Honestly what's needed is a change in attitude and not policy. The mentality experienced in this discussion is totally rediculous, blood sport. Prey you never come under this kind of scrutiny.

I have NOTHING against using the forums and our collective buying power to apply pressure on a vendor, even Honda if necessary, to set things right. I don't believe that every thread should stand as a testiment. Once the issue is being delt with then it's done, our role is finished.

I'm sorry that this excersize is ugly and unclean, it needs to be. You people need to understand the seriousness of this. This thread and the one before it have been LEATHAL to the company and person it was aimed at, a sponsor of the site since inception and a provider of quality service to many, gone kaput! You want we should piss on the body and mutilate the remains too? Would that be more interesting?

I will not allow this type of thread to continue WITHOUT all other means of action taken to resolve the situation. I will not let them continue while subtantive action is being made to resolve the problem and I will NOT let the situation get out of control or proporation. That applies to anyone, not just sponsors. There will be no mob rule here.

If people remain sensible then there is no problem. Issues such as this can be brought to light and hopefully resolved without a public hanging and with the best outcome for all parties. We've never been the BBB and have never tried to be. People who ask get good recomendations. If you don't ask then that's your problem.

Bieg

cthree,

If someone has a business dispute with a vendor what purpose does it serve to have everyone on the forum pile on with their 2 cents? What I suggested would have taken about three posts to resolve the problem,

The member posts his problem with the vendor

The vendor responds

The final resolution (if any) is then posted.

The other forum members can view this (but not post) and observe the process and make their own minds up on how things were handled.

I never suggested you or the moderators "rate the vendor".

I don't think this "lynch mob" mentality serves the forum well.

minboost

I think I'll keep my opinions to myself. But hey SPYDERFISH:

My friend from cali sold an item to another person in florida. That guy's check bounced. My friend looked up 'bad check' laws online and found that if he followed a few simple steps he could collect his money legally without going to court or involving lawyers. He just had to write a letter, send it certified, wait for a certain time to pass, then go on to the next step. There was not court or lawyers involved. No real fees other than postage I believe. He successfully collected his money because apparently some official of the county or state collects the money for you (if they couldn't collect the money that guy would have gone to jail).

Not sure of the exact procedure or if it would vary if the two states were different, but I am certain that every state has bad check (consumer protection) laws which may or may not be more serious if a business is the one writing a bad check. Keep in mind that:

1. Interstate transactions are under FEDERAL jurisdiction, more serious than state or local jurisdiction.

2. For the amount in question (several thousand) you may be able to sue him and choose the venue for the trial - like your home state far far away from his home state (I'm not sure if that is worth it).

3. Bouncing a check can be a crime. The amount of the check can increase the seriousness. Some are as low as $200 and others $1000 or more before you can consider it a FELONY.

I hope you get your money back and money all of the costs you've incurred from this ordeal. From the way this whole thing is being handled/avoided I wouldn't think you were overreacting if you pushed for criminal charges.

JoeCritter

If Spyder wants to end this now, and is willing to go to Atlanta to do it, it's real simple:

If Tim doesn't refund the money, you take the bounced check to the cops.

Writing a bad check is *illegal*. To make it more clear, it is a *crime*.

In some states (ianal) if you accept partial payment, you lose your ability to press charges, so be wary of accepting less then the amount your owed.

s2kchick

I persnally think Beig's idea is a good one and would eliminate all of this back and forth "he should do this, he should do that." Not to mention the fact, it will help eliminate any flame wars (notice I said "help eliminate"). You've already shut down two thread's about this topic and you're threatening to shut down a third. With Beig's suggestion, any board censorship will be reduced.

The board is receiving a financial benefit from the sponsors. Simply shutting down thread's is going to look very biased on behalf of the board and likely alienate a lot of peopl. However, by allowing a customer/board member to post a complaint and a vendor to respond, you've created a fair playing field. What's the harm in that?

ScottH

Spyderfish,

You need to realize that despite all the promises of resolution, until you get your money, it is all just bullshit. Judging from posts by Tim and his supporters, it is obvious that he is never going to return your money voluntarily. You must immediately take action to protect your claim and collect your money. Call the local authorities and report the bad checks, in some cases, and I believe this is one of them, it is actually a crime in the jurisdiction in which the checks were received. If Tim is charged with a crime, part of his plea deal or sentence will involve restitution, which means that the court will collect the debt for you as a previous poster indicated. Another advantage to getting the court involved is that only a court will have the ability to force collection on personal assets, garnish wages, etc. You must get the police, court or attorney involved immediately if you really want your money back.

Cthree and other MG Racing/Tim supporters: You should be ashamed of yourselves for your reponses to this and other threads regarding this situation. You accuse Spyderfish of lying, offer support and encouragement to a person who committed criminal acts and then assert that the other members of this board can't decide a valid vendor dispute based on the facts and that the moderators couldn't possibly allow this free flow of information because a vendor engaging in theft, fraud and deception might go out of business. At least be honest and admit that you have no sympathy for Spyderfish because Tim has paid you on time and the check did not bounce.

wake88

It is not as unfair as you may think. If executed as Beig has proposed, as long as the sponser is fair to the customer they will have lifted any doubts about their integrity and in doing so will have proved themselves to have good customer service. Of course, if the sponser is unfair to the customer, we get to know about it without a public hanging like this one. You can see that it would have either a positive or negative effect depending on the outcome of the situation. This would ensure smooth transactions between board members and sponsers, while giving the sponsers the style of customer service advertisement that they choose with their actions.

While on the subject of fair, I'd say it's more fair for a sponser to attend a "mediation" style business resolution section for a conflict than for a customer/board member to be out $3500 for a year+.

The case here seems to be that this scrutiny was well deserved and required for the public to fully understand the extent of the situation. I'm not condoning the way that spyderfish comes across, but his personality and writing style should not be held against him. He deserves an apology and his money.

As for Tim, I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt. Maybe he is in a financial slump and cannot even get a loan from the bank to compensate Spyderfish. Put yourself in Tim's shoes - Imagine if your credit card company came to you one day and demanded that you immediately pay the $3500 that you owe them. How easy would that be? Granted the turbo was returned and resold, but maybe things were too deep and Tim had to put that money elsewhere. This may not be fair to Spyderfish, but perhaps Tim didn't have a choice.

This brings me to my final point. In the last paragraph I did a lot of speculation due to that fact that Tim has been somewhat unresponsive on this thread. I suggest this: Tim, if what I have said in my last paragraph is true, or even if it isn't, come forward and let us know the hardships you're facing. I guarantee you will win more support and possibly some understand of the S2ki community and perhaps spyderfish by giving us an idea of how tight things actually are. I realize you aren't some huge corporation. I also realize things can get hairy owning your own business. The more we know, the more we can help.

Steve

wake88

One more thing,

If you both pm me with your phone numbers, I would be willing to mediate this conflict for you free of charge. I have a few scenarios in mind that would finally bring this issue to rest while satisfying both parties.

Steve

s2kchick

The separate thread started by Giampiero this weekend isn't helping Tim's credibility too much. In fact, if anything, it seems to be placing more blame on him.