jbov

Thanks everyone for their advice on local dealers selling at msrp. Last night, however, i bit the bullet and bought $700 over msrp. I want to relay my experience at ##### Honda in orange county, CA as a warning for all potential s2000 owners out there. Following one of the leads posted I contacted them over the internet, and saw they had a black one in stock. I called the sales floor and was told by two different people, Ed and Mark, that they would give it up at MSRP. I made it very clear that I was driving up from San Diego and that I would not play any games price wise. I received multiple assurances that they would give me msrp, no haggling, no hassle price. Anyway so off I go with my girlfriend to Irvine in heavy afternoon traffic. We get to the dealer and he takes me inside shows me the sticker with a 10k markup. I said we 'we dealt with this on the phone, we had a deal at msrp...'

'Oh yeah, of course we do, i just want to show you how rare these cars are and what we normally charge.' Already I am getting a little wary.

Now I was looking for a lease deal and I had a print out from the Honda website outlining a payment plan for an s2000 at msrp with 2500 down (plus deposit and first months payment for an out the door of just under 3300) and payments of 384/mo. plus tax. This should come out to about 410/mo with tax.

They came back with a deal for 430, including tax. Now 20 bucks a month isn't a deal breaker, but as it is 100 more than the RSX alternative I was considering it made me pause. Now I am not at all passionate about the RSX (my friend says it looks like an acorn and I can't get that image out of my head) but it was the more practical and cheaper alternative, and I was already having trouble justifying the S. I asked them why they couldn't match the deal outlined by honda, and was told that

a. Honda made a mistake with the lease calculations
b. Different states have different tax and lease deals
c. That was absolutely the best deal they could possibly offer

I was hesitating and one of the assistant managers came over to try to close the deal. 'This is the best deal we can give you, normally these are selling at 42k and we are giving it to you with only an 800 dollar mark up' he tells me.

!!!! Hang on, verbally this deal was based on MSRP. Obviously I get pissed and demand they improve the terms to match honda's lease deal at MSRP. I end up in the managers office practically shouting with him that they have to give me MSRP. He said he could not vouch for what his salesman said, and he can see from my credit report that i have visited 5 honda dealerships trying to hammer out a deal, and they are offering me the best one yet, so why gripe about what amounts to a dollar a day.

I storm out in anger dragging my poor girlfriend (who is in awe of the dark seamy underside of car haggling and my ability to stick to my guns... up to that point at least).

We go to dinner down the street and I call the dealer and offer him 3000 down and 415/mo. I thoroughly embarrass my girl with my loud at the table haggling in the restaurant, now we are both in terrible moods and picking at our food. They call back and counter with 3200 down and the original 430/mo. I tell them what I think of their business practices and where they can stick their S2000 and hang up.

Then a weird thing happened. I saw the S2000, that I was sure I would be driving home that night, slipping through my hands. I saw further drives to LA and beyond ending in perhaps the same result. I saw my girlfriend's look of disappointment, as she loved the car and knew it would be her driving me the two hours to LA, losing another day, to save the 20/mo. Before I knew it we were driving back to the dealer and I was signing the deal. I was ashamed, and I know you will all think I am weak and that I am helping the dealers perpetuate their games, but I absolutely could not wait for my S any longer.

Sorry this story is so long, but there is a lesson. Even though I folded and gave my money to the dark side, hopefully you can avoid ####### Honda and they will snare fewer desperate souls in their web of deceit.

Unfortunately I cannot stay mad as I now have an S2000. What a moral dilemma!

Jettison

Gratz on your NEW S2000 !!!!

I know how you feel about them car salesmen and i feel the same way. After a week of driveing you will forget all about the BS you had to go thru to get it The dealership made a few grand off you so dont beat yourself up to bad. They got me for a few grand also but it was well worth it. Had mine one week now and 1000 miles 8)

MajorHavoc

Congrats on the new S2000 !!!

Don't look back !! ! ! She's all yours now!!!

That's the same "Irvine" dealer that used the trunk lid of a new car as a note pad. When I was shopping for my S2000 the salesman and I were standing in the back lot and he used his finger to do some math in the dirt on the trunk of a brand new car !!!
For the most part, most dealers SUCK !!!

Sorry for the "mini rant" !!

Da Hapa

Jbov-

First of all, congrat's on your purchase. These are great cars and worth the $.

Second, I would pull out my lease and look it over. The lease should make it very clear what the capitalized cost is, what the money rate is and what the projected value at the term of the lease was. Tax., lic., etc. are all fixed. I am wiling to bet that they screwed you on either the capitalized cost (how much they actually charged you for the car) or the interest rate (money factor). I'm betting its the latter because it's the easiest way to hide profit and a simple way for them to pad their income. (the difference between a 36 month pmt on a $20K note at 6.0% and at 10.0% is about $35 bucks a month). I'm willing to bet that the Honda payment calculater assumes the best money rate factor and the dealer screwed you (if you have excellent credit) by charging you an exhorbidant IR.

I'm willing to bet that this was Fladeboe Honda. They blow ass.

jbov

da hapa,

it was the capitalized cost. They gave me a good money factor, but, like I said, they mistakenly admitted that they were charging me the 800 dollar premium, which became 700 after I left for dinner--the wait was well worth 100 dollars i saved, though not knowing the area we were forced to choose between sizzler, denny's, and marie callenders (chose mc).

I went back to the honda lease calculator and added 700 to msrp ($33540) with 2500 down. It came out to $3233.18 out the door and 408.18 plus tax/mo. I actually got slightly better than that ($3200 out the door, and 431/mo). So I got a fair deal based on the $700 markup.

It was the shadiness with which that markup was applied that bothers me. They tried to hide it from me and the salesman I dealt with insisted the lease was based on msrp, and only when his boss came over and let the markup slip out did I find out what capitalized cost the lease numbers were being based on. As soon as this secret was out of the bag they backtracked and claimed they never offered me msrp over the phone. My salesman disappeared and I dealt only with the manager who couldn't 'vouch' for his sales force. I derive a little peace of mind from the fact that when I came back I dealt with an entirely different sales team, including manager, They were definitely nicer (of course at this point I was a buyer), and I'm sure they will get a least a portion, if not all, of the commission on my sale.

I have blanked out the name of the dealership to keep my name clean, but I guess its not too hard to figure out who it was.

Of course no amount of frustration and loss of faith in the basic decency of my fellow humans can eclipse the joy I have, and will continue to gain, from my amazing new machine!!

Ajjra

Honda of America should be calling you with a follow-up phone call to ask about your experience at the dealer. They call everybody as I understand it. There is your chance to vent.

You know, I don't know how dealer swapping of cars works but here in the North East there is not a single dealership that doesn't have at least 1 S2000 in stock. I was able to get mine 3 weeks ago for $30,200

I can't believe some of the prices I'm hearing from you guys out there on the west coast.

Billi

Exactly where is ####### Honda?

Anyway, next time making a deal, don't bring a girlfriend and always be prepared to walk away.

RJ_S2K

jbov,

I'm glad to hear you got your S2000, but I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with so much crap from that Honda dealership. Like you, I hashed my deal out over the phone (with Hayward Honda) before I drove two hours to sign the deal and pick up the car. I had the dealership fax me details on the deal first though before I drove there (get it in writing). I also had them fax me a credit app so I didn't have to waste my time in their office filling it out.

The dealership was very honest and lived up to everything they committed to. This is actually the third car where I've hashed the deal out over the phone first, and so far, all three dealerships lived up to their committments (knock on wood).

------
In regards of leases, Honda is offering a money factor of "1.25" (0.00125) on Civics and Accords which equates to an APR of 3.0%. That basically corresponds to their 2.9% financing deal. Supposedly, their best money factor rate on non-specials is "2.4" (0.0024) which equates to an APR of 5.76%. You should notice in your lease deal a $550 charge for a "lease fee". That $550 is what Honda charges for every lease, and it's used to provide GAP insurance. The $550 is added to the purchase price of the vehicle; therefore, your "capitalized cost reduction" is essentially reduced by $550. Also, your "capitalized cost reduction" is also reduced by the sales tax on the "capitalized cost reduction" amount. With a lease, you pay sales tax on the amount of the car you are using (paying for) including the down payment).

OverDrive

Congratulations on the car -- you'll love it!

I had a similar experience with Autowest Honda in Fremont, CA in January. Their internet salesman agreed via email to sell me an S2000 for MSRP; but when I went to the dealership to test drive the car and complete the paperwork, the sales manager reneged on the deal. Of course the internet sales guy was nowhere to be found (and I never heard from him again). At the sales manager's request I forwarded the emails containing the agreement previously reached. He had one of his salesmen call the next day to tell me they still wouldn't honor the agreement I reached with the internet salesman.

I'll certainly avoid them in the future -- I refuse to deal with any business whose employees show so little integrity. In the end, I bought from a dealer in Illinois after contacting most of the dealerships in California looking for a fair deal. I believe it's important to put the unpleasantness of the purchase process behind us and just enjoy these amazing automobiles. Happy driving!

VTEC Racer

I don't care, I'll say it. RAY FLADEBOE HONDA IN IRVINE SUCKS AND BY FAR HAS THE WORST SERVICE I HAVE YET TO EXPERIENCE!!!!! Not to mention that the dealership looks like crap compared to all the other newly redisgned and newly built Honda dealers. I was told that each dealership will be getting remodeled in the order of what number they are in total sales. I can see why their remodeling has been so delayed.