Which is better - Life with or without DBW & VSA?
#11
DBW- Who knows but probably faster than any linkage. May be a moot point though since quick throttle response between the two would be hard to measure.
VSA- Why would'nt every one want this option? The extra money spent on an '06+ can be considered for this option only IMO.
VSA- Why would'nt every one want this option? The extra money spent on an '06+ can be considered for this option only IMO.
#12
Also, consider where you live. If there is any chance you will be driving on snow/sleet/ice or just plain wet pavement for that matter, you will want to get an S with VSA.
I turned VSA off as a test while driving in a undeveloped part of my neighborhood this past week when we had about an inch of snow/sleet on the ground. The first slight bend in the road I came to I lost total control.... Would have taken out mailboxes or worse had they been put up. The S was completely undriveable for my skill level. Put VSA back and was able to get back home safely. We all make those "O $%^& shouldn't have done that decisions" every once in a while. VSA turns that frown upside down.
I can't compare the DBW as I have never driven an earlier model S but in the 06 the car still feels very responsive. I wouldn't have even known it was DBW without lurking around here for a few months before buying my S.
I turned VSA off as a test while driving in a undeveloped part of my neighborhood this past week when we had about an inch of snow/sleet on the ground. The first slight bend in the road I came to I lost total control.... Would have taken out mailboxes or worse had they been put up. The S was completely undriveable for my skill level. Put VSA back and was able to get back home safely. We all make those "O $%^& shouldn't have done that decisions" every once in a while. VSA turns that frown upside down.
I can't compare the DBW as I have never driven an earlier model S but in the 06 the car still feels very responsive. I wouldn't have even known it was DBW without lurking around here for a few months before buying my S.
#13
When I'm just driving around I wish I had some kind of traction control, would make me feel a little safer in the event something unforseen happens.
However, I would never want DBW atleast in my sports cars unless the wire went straight to the throttle body, not having to go through the ECU first. I would bet the response would be faster given my way but it doesnt work that way
However, I would never want DBW atleast in my sports cars unless the wire went straight to the throttle body, not having to go through the ECU first. I would bet the response would be faster given my way but it doesnt work that way
#15
Originally Posted by KseriesTuner,Feb 13 2008, 11:56 AM
I am just wondering which people tend to prefer - s2k's before or after MY2006 when the changes were introduced. What are the pros and cons of DBW and VSA? I am asking b/c I am looking for a used AP2, but I am still unsure as to which year I should be focusing on.
Thanks!
Thanks!
#16
Originally Posted by Spec_Ops2087,Feb 13 2008, 03:28 PM
When I'm just driving around I wish I had some kind of traction control, would make me feel a little safer in the event something unforseen happens.
#17
Originally Posted by RED MX5,Feb 13 2008, 04:01 PM
The DBW is transparent on the S2000. VSA can be turned off. What's not to like?
#18
Originally Posted by __redruM,Feb 13 2008, 09:52 AM
9 times out of 10, when my VSA comes on, it's welcome. That 1 time can be fairly anoying though. I had a spirited encounter with an AP1 at a stop light, and pulled most of a car length on him in 1st, then he gets it all back and more in 2nd, with my VSA light flashing...
Now DBW I don't even notice, it's very well done. And I never have to take the slack out of my throttle cable
Now DBW I don't even notice, it's very well done. And I never have to take the slack out of my throttle cable
My throttle response is just as quick as my friend's AP1. I'm running a testpipe so it might actually be faster ...
#19
I feel like i may be able to give some good insight into the 04-05 non-dbw ap2 vs the 06 dbw ap2.
I owned an 04 ap2 for a year and a half and it was great fun and recently traded in for an 06 ap2 with dbw.
The DBW is pretty well done. Very transparent. I do however notice a slight lag when releasing the throttle @ higher rpms. The throttle plate doesnt close fast enough and the rpms rise/hang ever so slightly with the clutch pressed in. I rpm match all my shifts even during daily driving, yet even then dbw isnt noticeable.
throttle response through-out daily driving is very transparent and i would even say 'smoother' than the non-dbw s2000. I will say that the 06 2.2 definilty has more tq in the lower rpm range. Very noticeable. I would attribute this to the superior tuning and characteristics of the ecu. I have also found that the dbw s2000 gets about 2-3 mpg better on my normal route of mixed highway/city driving.
Lets not omit the fact that the abilty to use the HONDATA reflash is freaking sweet for easy i/h/e tuning and a wider the vtec window. This is the main reason i wanted an 06. The Toda Reflash with its 4k-8600 rpm vtec window is freaking exactly what honda should have done with the ap2 in the first place.
Then the KW s/c and its including hondata reflash. nuff said.
I owned an 04 ap2 for a year and a half and it was great fun and recently traded in for an 06 ap2 with dbw.
The DBW is pretty well done. Very transparent. I do however notice a slight lag when releasing the throttle @ higher rpms. The throttle plate doesnt close fast enough and the rpms rise/hang ever so slightly with the clutch pressed in. I rpm match all my shifts even during daily driving, yet even then dbw isnt noticeable.
throttle response through-out daily driving is very transparent and i would even say 'smoother' than the non-dbw s2000. I will say that the 06 2.2 definilty has more tq in the lower rpm range. Very noticeable. I would attribute this to the superior tuning and characteristics of the ecu. I have also found that the dbw s2000 gets about 2-3 mpg better on my normal route of mixed highway/city driving.
Lets not omit the fact that the abilty to use the HONDATA reflash is freaking sweet for easy i/h/e tuning and a wider the vtec window. This is the main reason i wanted an 06. The Toda Reflash with its 4k-8600 rpm vtec window is freaking exactly what honda should have done with the ap2 in the first place.
Then the KW s/c and its including hondata reflash. nuff said.
#20
Not a fan of DBW or VSA.
IMO, unnecessary, and potentially add failure modes.
I also prefer having no ABS, which I don't at the moment (light came on after left rear wheel bearing and hub replacement, haven't "fixed" it, in no hurry to).
The car is still a breeze to drive and control, even in the snow.
I have much MORE control, being able to spin the tires and lock the brakes at will.
A pity no manufacturer has developed GM's "pedal pusher" concept for ABS and traction control. You get the benefits, but you can "push through" the feedback at the accelerator and brake pedals to spin the tires or lock the brakes.
IMO, unnecessary, and potentially add failure modes.
I also prefer having no ABS, which I don't at the moment (light came on after left rear wheel bearing and hub replacement, haven't "fixed" it, in no hurry to).
The car is still a breeze to drive and control, even in the snow.
I have much MORE control, being able to spin the tires and lock the brakes at will.
A pity no manufacturer has developed GM's "pedal pusher" concept for ABS and traction control. You get the benefits, but you can "push through" the feedback at the accelerator and brake pedals to spin the tires or lock the brakes.