ap2's have 6-10% more hp from 1-8k
06-09-2005, 11:24 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by jasonw,Jun 9 2005, 08:36 AM
Here's a dyno of kitwetzler's stock 2004 vs a stock 2002:
I was supprised when I saw it and there are probably other comparisons that are closer.
And Wis: I think by focusing on straight line races you are minimizing the differences. The torque/lower gearing should really help coming out of turns...
I was supprised when I saw it and there are probably other comparisons that are closer.
And Wis: I think by focusing on straight line races you are minimizing the differences. The torque/lower gearing should really help coming out of turns...
06-10-2005, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Jun 8 2005, 08:54 PM
lol yeah this is going to go in a bad direction. they don't have 6% more hp either. lol.
the ap2 has a FEW more hp and a .04 gearing advantage (.04 is not much at ALL)
however, the ap1 has the redline advantage.
this part below is copied from another thread I had typed:
here is where the 2nd part comes in. the 2 cars have very similar acceleration, and while there is a small amount more of power and a .04 (this is so tiny it's not even funny) gearing difference, it is negated by the fact that the ap1 can remain in a more powerful gear longer.
for example.
the ap2 has to shift from 1st to 2nd at 36mph. the ap1 gets to stay in 1st gear until 43mph. that's an additional 7mph that the ap1 has a HUGE gearing advantage since from 36-47, the ap2 is in 2nd gear, and the ap1 is still in 1st.
now the 2-3 shift. the ap2 has to shift at 56mph, while the ap1 gets to stay in 2nd until 65mph. again, another HUGE gearing advantage for the ap1 for 9mph.
3rd gear the ap2 shifts at 78mph, while the ap1 shifts at 90mph. that's 12mph difference where the ap1 has a huge gearing advantage.
So. while at the earlier part of each gear, the ap2 has a VERY slight advantage in .04 gearing and a few extra ponies, they are negated by the redline, in which for the final few mph of each gear, the ap1 gets to stay in a MUCH shorter gear giving it a MUCH better advantage.
So when you add it all up, they are equal. through 1st gear, the ap2 will pull a little, but as soon as it shifts to 2nd while the ap1 remains in 1st, the ap1 will catch back up or even gain some ground. and this continues through each gear, getting even MORE noticeable at higher speeds.
the cars are even, no matter how you cut it. both cars have had drivers run 13.6 in the 1/4 mile and the trap speeds are similar/thesame.
the ap2 has a FEW more hp and a .04 gearing advantage (.04 is not much at ALL)
however, the ap1 has the redline advantage.
this part below is copied from another thread I had typed:
here is where the 2nd part comes in. the 2 cars have very similar acceleration, and while there is a small amount more of power and a .04 (this is so tiny it's not even funny) gearing difference, it is negated by the fact that the ap1 can remain in a more powerful gear longer.
for example.
the ap2 has to shift from 1st to 2nd at 36mph. the ap1 gets to stay in 1st gear until 43mph. that's an additional 7mph that the ap1 has a HUGE gearing advantage since from 36-47, the ap2 is in 2nd gear, and the ap1 is still in 1st.
now the 2-3 shift. the ap2 has to shift at 56mph, while the ap1 gets to stay in 2nd until 65mph. again, another HUGE gearing advantage for the ap1 for 9mph.
3rd gear the ap2 shifts at 78mph, while the ap1 shifts at 90mph. that's 12mph difference where the ap1 has a huge gearing advantage.
So. while at the earlier part of each gear, the ap2 has a VERY slight advantage in .04 gearing and a few extra ponies, they are negated by the redline, in which for the final few mph of each gear, the ap1 gets to stay in a MUCH shorter gear giving it a MUCH better advantage.
So when you add it all up, they are equal. through 1st gear, the ap2 will pull a little, but as soon as it shifts to 2nd while the ap1 remains in 1st, the ap1 will catch back up or even gain some ground. and this continues through each gear, getting even MORE noticeable at higher speeds.
the cars are even, no matter how you cut it. both cars have had drivers run 13.6 in the 1/4 mile and the trap speeds are similar/thesame.
06-10-2005, 07:37 AM
#74
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Originally Posted by HvRRZ,Jun 10 2005, 12:09 AM
For all those that replied negatively to my encounterz well then f_uck you. I have my kill list there because I can have it there. I haven't bragged about any of my runs, and hardle ever post a run when I do have one, I just add the car to the kill list. I do nopt need to make up BS for faggots like yourselfs to find something to amuse urselfs on a website. Hey if it makes you happy to call bs on every encounter you hear about then feel free, hell I wouldn't want to deprive you of ur only happiness in life. Why would I post my footedge when all you guys will call is BS again. Nah F_uck that shit I'd rather not waste the energy of having to host the video somewhere then post it up so that faggots can view it and think it was either set up, or the usual excuse "that guy didn't know how to drive." Stop crying like little biathces and grow up. You guyz are ridiculous, Pussiebiatches.
to this entire deal. ap2 is faster. bye.
06-10-2005, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Jun 10 2005, 08:42 AM
while the ap2 gets a small .04 gearing advantage, this is negated by the 8000rpm redline vs the 9000rpm redline.
i'll put JUST as many cars on the ap2 as I do the ap1.
i'll put JUST as many cars on the ap2 as I do the ap1.
And it's interesting that you've already determined the extra 800 RPMs negate the extra torque, quicker power buildup, and lower gearing.
Of course racing a modded AP1 against an AP2 is not going to prove much about the two powerplants unless they have exactly the same mods...
06-10-2005, 08:11 AM
#78
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Like I said from the outset, they basically wash out.
Racing other people on the street isn't going to prove much. I have a buddy with a 350Z that I run once in a while. In my '01 we were usually even, half a car either way. In my '04 I normally take him by 2-3 car lengths to 110 mph.
At the same time, I have a big gearing delimma on an autox course, because of how low the '04 redlines 2nd gear.
Racing other people on the street isn't going to prove much. I have a buddy with a 350Z that I run once in a while. In my '01 we were usually even, half a car either way. In my '04 I normally take him by 2-3 car lengths to 110 mph.
At the same time, I have a big gearing delimma on an autox course, because of how low the '04 redlines 2nd gear.
06-10-2005, 09:31 AM
#79
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Originally Posted by jasonw,Jun 10 2005, 09:52 AM
It's a 4% gearing advantage.
And it's interesting that you've already determined the extra 800 RPMs negate the extra torque, quicker power buildup, and lower gearing.
Of course racing a modded AP1 against an AP2 is not going to prove much about the two powerplants unless they have exactly the same mods...
And it's interesting that you've already determined the extra 800 RPMs negate the extra torque, quicker power buildup, and lower gearing.
Of course racing a modded AP1 against an AP2 is not going to prove much about the two powerplants unless they have exactly the same mods...
as I've already explained. for the first part of each gear and mph range, the ap2 has a 3.4% (not 4% if you want to get picky) gearing advantage. and a few extra horses. (though it is a bit heavier than an ap1 as well)
but then from 36mph-43mph, 56mph-65mph, and 78mph-90mph, the ap1 has a HUGE gearing advantage. a LOT more than 3.4%. So while the ap2 gets to pull a little, it's redline hurts it, and while it goes into the next gear (and now is suffering a big gearing disadvantage) the ap1 regains the small distance the ap2 might have pulled.
that's pretty much how any race i'd had with an ap2 would go when I was stock.
if you think that lower redline doesn't make a difference you are most certainly mistaken.
06-10-2005, 10:00 AM
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The only GEARING ADVANTAGE AP1 has over AP2 is in 6th gear. You can see by looking at the charts that the AP1's power tails off as it nears redline. That, and the lower gearing of the AP2 makes it a little more complicated than just giving the advantage to the car that can stay in gear longer. It can be mathematically determined as to which powertrain is ideal, to rule out driver error but, we need to agree on a set of dyno charts first.
Also, we must not forget about situations where you find yourself at lower RPMS and can't quite downshift...
Also, we must not forget about situations where you find yourself at lower RPMS and can't quite downshift...