ap2's have 6-10% more hp from 1-8k
06-11-2005, 10:25 PM
#122
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Originally Posted by afwfjustin,Jun 11 2005, 04:50 PM
And besides, the AP2 rear bumper, exhaust tips, spoiler, and especially the wheels are hella ugly. 
06-11-2005, 10:48 PM
#124
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Originally Posted by Tyler N,Jun 11 2005, 10:25 PM
Completely a matter of opinion here. I'd disagree in saying the new bumpers, exhaust tips, spoiler and especially the wheels are far better looking than the AP1. We won't even get into the new front and rear lights or interior, as I think with the number of AP1's swapping or wanting to swap them out with the MY04-05's speaks for itself.
my humble opinion the 04 has nicers rims, interior, and possibly tail lights (although im not a fan of the yellow), nicer rear bumper (if you plan on keeping stock exhaust) everythign else i do not like.
AP1 has way better stock rubber though.
06-12-2005, 12:04 AM
#125
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Guys I have a 2003 EU-Spec AP1, I like the 2004 front bumper, head lamps and suspension and wheels (the rear bumper, the middle console, the exhaust tips are ugly as fcuk), but I am glad I live in a part of the world where the 2004/05 still revs to 9k..thats THE reason why I have this car. Now take a calculator and think with me..if the Ap1 has 2L and pulls down 240HP at the crank (120 per liter) than the AP2 (if the same technology has been used) has to put down 120 x 2.2 = 263HP.
How can a engine with bigger displacement produce more torque but same HP? I'm sure the insurance rates have something to do with this, cause I don't know of any magical stuff that can pump up the TQ but leave the HP same..these two are mathematically connected right? I find it silly when other AP1 owners start speculating about the dyno instead of accepting the fact that a 10% bigger engine with same technology used HAS to make approx. 10% more power.......but still, I am glad to have a AP1
How can a engine with bigger displacement produce more torque but same HP? I'm sure the insurance rates have something to do with this, cause I don't know of any magical stuff that can pump up the TQ but leave the HP same..these two are mathematically connected right? I find it silly when other AP1 owners start speculating about the dyno instead of accepting the fact that a 10% bigger engine with same technology used HAS to make approx. 10% more power.......but still, I am glad to have a AP1
06-12-2005, 07:03 AM
#127
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Jun 12 2005, 12:54 AM
rev limiter on the ap1 is 9150.
rev limiter on the ap2 is 8200. it's a 950rpm difference.
how many more nits can we pick?
and when i'm talking about "faster" here i am talking straight line only.
and yes revs DO matter. do you realize that the torque curve on the ap1 is VERY flat?? the ap2 is not any less "peakier" than the ap1. once it hits 6000rpm, the torque curve on the ap1 stays at about 135lb/ft pretty much all the way to redline. no different than the ap2.
you can't just ignore that rev limiter difference. as i've already said. it negates the advantage the ap2 had of more power and slightly shorter gearing.
if the F22 was so much better, then why does the rest of the world still get the F20??????? this would be a first that the US got the BETTER engine out of ANYTHING!!!! considering we never get the good engines or the best trims of a line up in cars.
in a straight line, the cars are dead even. everything that i can say to prove it has been said. anyone who wants to prove me wrong, feel free to stop by anytime, and i'll GLADLY show you I'm right.
between that and the 1/4 mile times and traps attained by both cars, you can't argue. when the cars have similar 60' times, ever notice how their trap speeds ALSO line up? why? because neither is faster than the other. all the numbers and theories in the world can't argue otherwise.
rev limiter on the ap2 is 8200. it's a 950rpm difference.
how many more nits can we pick?
and when i'm talking about "faster" here i am talking straight line only.
and yes revs DO matter. do you realize that the torque curve on the ap1 is VERY flat?? the ap2 is not any less "peakier" than the ap1. once it hits 6000rpm, the torque curve on the ap1 stays at about 135lb/ft pretty much all the way to redline. no different than the ap2.
you can't just ignore that rev limiter difference. as i've already said. it negates the advantage the ap2 had of more power and slightly shorter gearing.
if the F22 was so much better, then why does the rest of the world still get the F20??????? this would be a first that the US got the BETTER engine out of ANYTHING!!!! considering we never get the good engines or the best trims of a line up in cars.
in a straight line, the cars are dead even. everything that i can say to prove it has been said. anyone who wants to prove me wrong, feel free to stop by anytime, and i'll GLADLY show you I'm right.
between that and the 1/4 mile times and traps attained by both cars, you can't argue. when the cars have similar 60' times, ever notice how their trap speeds ALSO line up? why? because neither is faster than the other. all the numbers and theories in the world can't argue otherwise.
you can also speculate that they dont raise the hp number on paper for insurance reasons(ie srt4 etc) or maybe resale, or not to piss off japanese owners(usually get the best while u.s. get watered down version) ...who really knows
personally i like the f20 because i tihnk the 9krpm defined the car. part of its character. but the f22 is fun too.
06-12-2005, 08:46 AM
#128
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Originally Posted by youngjun91,Jun 11 2005, 11:36 PM
Wrong. We're having some difficulty with facts here. Much differently? How does putting in "stronger bottom end parts" significantly change the power/torque chracteristics of the engine? Maybe there's something I'm missing here. Increasing the stroke to get the extra .2 liters has a much greater effect than "stronger bottom end parts". Now, changing the compression ratio would have a big effect, changing the cam profile would have a big effect, changing the vtec engagement point would have a big effect, and yes changing the stroke would have a big effect. Like the AP2, J's has increased the stroke. Please explain.
Lowering the redline? Did you see the same DVD that I did? J's Racing 2.2 has a rev limit of 8400 rpm which was raised to the 9000 rpm for one race - the result - the engine caught on fire - they'll never do that again. What J's sells is a 2.2 with a rev limit at 8400 rpm, yes lower than the AP1 and close to the AP2, but the piston speeds are close.
I don't know all the specific reasons why most markets got 2.0. One reason in some countries is extra taxes for bigger engines. 2.0 is right on the upper limit before the next bracket. Don't know how many countries this applies to. If you travel often, you'll notice that just about every European and Asian country favors smaller engines because of higher fuel prices or higher taxes or both. The argument of don't give me a bigger, lazy "American" engine with more horsepower and torque is ridiculous. I somtimes wish I had a 2.4 or even larger 6 banger
. Oh yeah, F1 with high revving engines is also popular in those same countries. Marketing an engine with revs that are closer to Schumacher's car makes sense to me. I'm sure some of you Americans are asking Schumacher who? My point exactly.
Lowering the redline? Did you see the same DVD that I did? J's Racing 2.2 has a rev limit of 8400 rpm which was raised to the 9000 rpm for one race - the result - the engine caught on fire - they'll never do that again. What J's sells is a 2.2 with a rev limit at 8400 rpm, yes lower than the AP1 and close to the AP2, but the piston speeds are close.
I don't know all the specific reasons why most markets got 2.0. One reason in some countries is extra taxes for bigger engines. 2.0 is right on the upper limit before the next bracket. Don't know how many countries this applies to. If you travel often, you'll notice that just about every European and Asian country favors smaller engines because of higher fuel prices or higher taxes or both. The argument of don't give me a bigger, lazy "American" engine with more horsepower and torque is ridiculous. I somtimes wish I had a 2.4 or even larger 6 banger
. Oh yeah, F1 with high revving engines is also popular in those same countries. Marketing an engine with revs that are closer to Schumacher's car makes sense to me. I'm sure some of you Americans are asking Schumacher who? My point exactly.
06-12-2005, 08:50 AM
#129
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Jun 11 2005, 10:54 PM
and when i'm talking about "faster" here i am talking straight line only.
06-12-2005, 10:59 AM
#130
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lol i'm talking street encounters and 1/4 mile. this means most races will be 0-100 or less.
sorry guys, but you can argue all you want.
both cars have/can do 13.6.
given equal drivers, both cars have the same trap speed if they have similar 60' times.
so explain to me how you can argue with the proven 1/4 mile track times and the trap speeds always lining up? you can't. so either show me contradictory proof, otherwise I'm just simply going to continue to repeat this real world proof.
sorry guys, but you can argue all you want.
both cars have/can do 13.6.
given equal drivers, both cars have the same trap speed if they have similar 60' times.
so explain to me how you can argue with the proven 1/4 mile track times and the trap speeds always lining up? you can't. so either show me contradictory proof, otherwise I'm just simply going to continue to repeat this real world proof.