ap2's have 6-10% more hp from 1-8k
06-10-2005, 01:21 PM
#91
I think most people realized its greater potential...we just don't have the sheer number of drivers yet.
My S52 coupe was competitive in AS. My S54 coupe stood no chance in SS -- otherwise known as the Z06 class.
06-10-2005, 02:56 PM
#92
Registered User
Originally Posted by jasonw,Jun 10 2005, 02:55 PM
Looking at the individual charts, you can see that the AP1's HP goes down after 8250 RPMs right after the AP2's shift point. That's what makes this a little less cut and dry.
And I don't think you can call the AP2 redline a disadvantage just because former AP1 owners can't get used to it. That sucks for them but, doesn't make it worse when the car is driven properly.
Like I said earlier there will be turns that are better suited to each gearset.
And I don't think you can call the AP2 redline a disadvantage just because former AP1 owners can't get used to it. That sucks for them but, doesn't make it worse when the car is driven properly.
Like I said earlier there will be turns that are better suited to each gearset.
you want to make it sound as if the ap2 is the exact same car as the ap1 except .04 better gearing and a few more horsepower.
this is not the case. if that WAS the case, then the ap2 would definitely be faster.
but honda cut the redline. this is what brings the ap2 back down to even.
again, you want to prove it? show me an ap2 that has broken 13.5. or where an ap1 and ap2 ran similar 60' times on the same track, same day, and yet the ap2 trapped higher. we can argue horsepower, redline, gearing, etc all day. at the end of the day, the 1/4 mile times don't lie.
06-10-2005, 03:00 PM
#93
Registered User
Originally Posted by jasonw,Jun 10 2005, 02:55 PM
And I don't think you can call the AP2 redline a disadvantage just because former AP1 owners can't get used to it. That sucks for them but, doesn't make it worse when the car is driven properly.
on this section, the ap2 has to waste time shifting into 3rd gear for a split second, only to go back to 2nd, OR it has to simply rev to 56mph and bounce off the limiter for a second.
while the ap1 can just keep going in 2nd gear and then brake. i've easily seen a few auto-x track sections with situations like that.
you don't call that a disadvantage?
06-10-2005, 03:05 PM
#95
Registered User
Originally Posted by steve c,Jun 10 2005, 03:21 PM
Don't use the Auto-X classes to determine capability. The trend you see is for the updated model to be knocked up a class from the old model, regardless of any actual improvements. The S54 vs S52 M coupe debacle comes to mind.
My S52 coupe was competitive in AS. My S54 coupe stood no chance in SS -- otherwise known as the Z06 class.
My S52 coupe was competitive in AS. My S54 coupe stood no chance in SS -- otherwise known as the Z06 class.
also keep in mind, that the 2 years the ap1 has been in B-stock, it has dominated in B-stock.
06-10-2005, 03:07 PM
#96
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Originally Posted by Wisconsin S2k,Jun 10 2005, 03:56 PM
quit looking at horsepower. if you want to calculate the acceleration of a car at a given rpm you use gearing, wheel circumference, and TORQUE not horsepower.
you want to make it sound as if the ap2 is the exact same car as the ap1 except .04 better gearing and a few more horsepower.
this is not the case. if that WAS the case, then the ap2 would definitely be faster.
but honda cut the redline. this is what brings the ap2 back down to even.
again, you want to prove it? show me an ap2 that has broken 13.5. or where an ap1 and ap2 ran similar 60' times on the same track, same day, and yet the ap2 trapped higher. we can argue horsepower, redline, gearing, etc all day. at the end of the day, the 1/4 mile times don't lie.
you want to make it sound as if the ap2 is the exact same car as the ap1 except .04 better gearing and a few more horsepower.
this is not the case. if that WAS the case, then the ap2 would definitely be faster.
but honda cut the redline. this is what brings the ap2 back down to even.
again, you want to prove it? show me an ap2 that has broken 13.5. or where an ap1 and ap2 ran similar 60' times on the same track, same day, and yet the ap2 trapped higher. we can argue horsepower, redline, gearing, etc all day. at the end of the day, the 1/4 mile times don't lie.
The independant variables are close enough with these two versions that the area under the HP curve is all that matters. We aren't really comparing acceleration as much as distance traveled or displacement since the acceleration changes through the RPMs.
I think we are trying to prove different things here. You are focusing on the 1320, and I'm thinking of other scenarios as well(the kind that the car was designed for!). It might be suprising to compare the numbers of a 0-120 or something beyond 1/4 mile as well.
No setup can be best for every scenario but, it does seem like the extra TQ, lower gearing would be better for tighter circuits...
06-10-2005, 03:21 PM
#98
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Originally Posted by PilotKD,Jun 10 2005, 04:12 PM
What we can say is the AP2 is faster below VTEC while driving "normally" around town and to me, that's a big advantage for a daily driver.
06-10-2005, 03:45 PM
#99
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Originally Posted by jasonw,Jun 10 2005, 05:07 PM
HP = (Torque * RPM) / 5250.
The independant variables are close enough with these two versions that the area under the HP curve is all that matters. We aren't really comparing acceleration as much as distance traveled or displacement since the acceleration changes through the RPMs.
I think we are trying to prove different things here. You are focusing on the 1320, and I'm thinking of other scenarios as well(the kind that the car was designed for!). It might be suprising to compare the numbers of a 0-120 or something beyond 1/4 mile as well.
No setup can be best for every scenario but, it does seem like the extra TQ, lower gearing would be better for tighter circuits...
The independant variables are close enough with these two versions that the area under the HP curve is all that matters. We aren't really comparing acceleration as much as distance traveled or displacement since the acceleration changes through the RPMs.
I think we are trying to prove different things here. You are focusing on the 1320, and I'm thinking of other scenarios as well(the kind that the car was designed for!). It might be suprising to compare the numbers of a 0-120 or something beyond 1/4 mile as well.
No setup can be best for every scenario but, it does seem like the extra TQ, lower gearing would be better for tighter circuits...
and again, if you want to calculate acceleration force at a given rpm, you use the torque, not the horsepower.
and i agree on the low rpm driveability.
