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ap2's have 6-10% more hp from 1-8k

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Old 06-08-2005, 06:35 PM
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Default ap2's have 6-10% more hp from 1-8k

ok here's a portion of an article i found...
To improve acceleration, the old adage "there's no replacement for displacement" was applied. Through the use of a longer stroke (increased to 90.7mm from 84mm), the motor's displacement was increased from 1997cc (2.0L) to 2157 cc (2.2L), resulting in basically a 500rpm shift of the horsepower curve (to the left, on the rpm scale), meaning the new motor basically makes the the same power as the older F20C, simply 500rpms sooner at basically every point on the curve. Compression has been bumped up a tenth of a point to 11.1 (from 11.0:1) and the valve timing has been altered to further enhance mid-range performance. On paper, the numbers translate to 240hp at 7800 rpm (vs 240hp@8300 rpm) and 162 lb-ft @ 6500 rpm (vs 153 lb-ft @ 7500 rpm).

It might seem trivial to simply lengthen the stroke of a given motor, but there are several major design details to consider. Foremost in this case are the increased loads acting on the piston sides. In the 8000+ rpm neighborhood where the S2000 takes residence, these become quite significant, resulting in unstable piston movement. To mitigate this phenomenon, Honda has improved the accuracy of the cylinder machining process to an extremly high level. Borrowing a technique from race engine building programs, Honda used a dummy head honing technique to simulate the cylinder bore deformation that occurs when the cylinder head is bolted to the block (imagine the bore diameter enlarging slightly and with irregularity as the cylinder bore is compressed). In other words, the bores are honed while a dummy head is bolted to the block. This technique results in bore deformation that's reportedly less than 25% of the deformation on a block which has been bored using normal methods.

The enlarged displacement results in a 6-10% improvement in horsepower and torque from 1000 to 8000 rpms. For Honda this improvement alone wasn't enough. A tighter secondary gear reduction ratio (1.206 vs 1.16) is specified to provide a bit more snap off the line and to better match the characteristics of the new motor. This results in effectively 4% shorter ratios for 1st through 4th gears while the 5th ratio is effectively 1% shorter. 6th is effectively 2% longer, for a slightly more relaxed cruise speed. Due to the additional torque of the new 2.2L motor (and possibly due to real-world issues with the 2.0L drivetrain), the S2000's transmission features a redesigned clutch, clutch case, and differential.
if this is true then shouldn't the ap2 be faster in a straight line or does the weight of ap2's balance out the difference?
Old 06-08-2005, 07:14 PM
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Oh boy...

You should give a link to the article in case others are interested...

Now. The gearing is different so 0-60 is probably better on AP1 since you have to shift twice to get to 60 in AP2. That's very unimportant to me so, I'm happy to have the extra torque in the AP2. AP2 also has a clutch delay so, you might need to remove that to "beat" an AP1...

It's still probably way too close unless the drivers are clones...
Old 06-08-2005, 08:35 PM
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why would it be surprising that there's more HP in AP2 from 1-8k? AP1's peak HP occurs at a higher RPM.
Old 06-08-2005, 08:41 PM
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Uh oh....incoming!!!
Old 06-08-2005, 08:54 PM
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lol yeah this is going to go in a bad direction. they don't have 6% more hp either. lol.

the ap2 has a FEW more hp and a .04 gearing advantage (.04 is not much at ALL)

however, the ap1 has the redline advantage.

this part below is copied from another thread I had typed:

here is where the 2nd part comes in. the 2 cars have very similar acceleration, and while there is a small amount more of power and a .04 (this is so tiny it's not even funny) gearing difference, it is negated by the fact that the ap1 can remain in a more powerful gear longer.

for example.

the ap2 has to shift from 1st to 2nd at 36mph. the ap1 gets to stay in 1st gear until 43mph. that's an additional 7mph that the ap1 has a HUGE gearing advantage since from 36-47, the ap2 is in 2nd gear, and the ap1 is still in 1st.

now the 2-3 shift. the ap2 has to shift at 56mph, while the ap1 gets to stay in 2nd until 65mph. again, another HUGE gearing advantage for the ap1 for 9mph.

3rd gear the ap2 shifts at 78mph, while the ap1 shifts at 90mph. that's 12mph difference where the ap1 has a huge gearing advantage.


So. while at the earlier part of each gear, the ap2 has a VERY slight advantage in .04 gearing and a few extra ponies, they are negated by the redline, in which for the final few mph of each gear, the ap1 gets to stay in a MUCH shorter gear giving it a MUCH better advantage.

So when you add it all up, they are equal. through 1st gear, the ap2 will pull a little, but as soon as it shifts to 2nd while the ap1 remains in 1st, the ap1 will catch back up or even gain some ground. and this continues through each gear, getting even MORE noticeable at higher speeds.

the cars are even, no matter how you cut it. both cars have had drivers run 13.6 in the 1/4 mile and the trap speeds are similar/thesame.
Old 06-08-2005, 09:03 PM
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ap2 will pull an ap1 straight line no doubt. have done it myself. not sayiong it's ganna be an insane ull but it will have a slight advantage.
Old 06-08-2005, 09:04 PM
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0-60 has to go to the AP1 since it only shifts once.
But 0-56 should be better in the AP2.

It would help to transpose two dynos taken at the same time of maybe an 03 and 04 that are close in mileage. I'm thinking an AP2 is less likely to get stuck out of the power band with lower gears and more torque though. This would probably make a bigger difference on a road course than a straight line full out 1/4 mi. run.
Old 06-08-2005, 09:17 PM
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And I bet my dad is stronger than your dad!
Old 06-08-2005, 09:21 PM
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what is clutch delay, and how exactly do you remove it? sorry but i'm picking up an 05 soon and trying to get all the info i can.
Old 06-08-2005, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by HelloEvo,Jun 8 2005, 10:21 PM
what is clutch delay, and how exactly do you remove it? sorry but i'm picking up an 05 soon and trying to get all the info i can.
https://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=275175

I'm going to leave mine on. I'm not planning to do burnouts and the extra protection is probably more good than bad.


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