__redruM

Not that I wouldn't help a newbie out, but google is the way to go for questions like this...

I searched:
S2000 "0-60"
and above is the first return.

Saki GT

Perfect for me would be an AP2 that revved to 11k - I love the F1 sound.

johnny

i would think the debate would be more on the f20 vs the f22

Saki GT

There's more than an engine change between the models - Honda did a lot of work when it revised the car in many areas.

RED MX5

Just because something is demanding doesn't mean that it is difficult.

One of the reasons these threads sometimes go downhill is because language is a terrible way to communicate. A GT3 is difficult to master, but doing so is thoroughly rewarding. The AP1 is the same. Once mastered they constantly reward the owner for his efforts. Why do people climb mountains? It certainly isn't because it's easy. We choose challenging things for the challenge, and no other justification should be required. Accepting a challenge and overcoming it is it's own reward.

The AP1 is NOT difficult to drive, and rewards finesse in spades. It just doesn't tolerate fools well (and neither does the AP2, but it is more tolerant than the original). Not everyone wants to drive a car that will hide their mistakes. It's better to have them exposed so one can make improvements. Owning an AP1 has made me a better autocrosser, no matter what I'm driving in the event, because the skills it demands to make it behave are the same skill you need to get the most out of any other car.

Does that make it any clearer?

TRDLiquidSilver

same here but how safe and reliable would 11k be?

RED MX5

Oh yea, I can only speak for myself, but my suspension mods have been oriented toward keeping very close to the stock handling, because the car came from the factory with just the kind of handling I like in my roadsters (and usually have to mod to get). I will be adding an adjustable FSB soon, for faster autocrosses and track days, but the bar will be adjusted very close to the stock bar setting for most autocrosses and all street use.

We mod to make our AP1's even LESS like the AP2's. We make them harsher, make them rev harder, install even lighter flywheels, and so on. AP2 guys do the same thing. Some AP1 guys also upgrade to AP2 suspension/rear-subframe, because they either race at locations where bump steer becomes an issue, or because they believe they are observing bump steer problems, but many (probably most) don't have an issue and realize the need for the roll understeer to help stabalize the car as it rolls into a corner.

People also upgrade body panels when they like the newer panels better, but a true AP1 lover is only going to make changes that make for more of the same. Nobody is going to put a heavier flywheel and slower steering rack in an AP1, and nobody is going to lower an AP1's redline or install a CDV or DBW. It's not that kind of car.

Will all the AP1 owners who have installed an AP2 rack to slow down their steering please chime in? How many AP1 owners have installed a CDV? Please chime in.

From what I've seen here on S2kI there are more people removing the CDV from their AP2, and wanting quicker steering on their AP2, than there are guys with AP1's upgrading to AP2 parts. Not that the CDV or slower steering is a bad thing, because both make the car easier to drive, but they're not things everyone wants or likes. Different strokes for different folks.

Mr.Integra

I chose the AP1 over AP2 for one reason: F20c.

With a car like the s2000, I was going to upgrade the suspension anyway, which would bring more confidence to the AP1. However, one upgrade that isn't easily done is a complete engine swap. I'm just not hardcore enough to buy an AP2 and then swap to the F20c. And we all know that the F20c with 4.44+ gears will stomp all over the F22. And you can't really put gears in the F22 otherwise it'll be way too short.

No offense to the AP2 folks, but contrary to popular (AMERICAN) belief, RPMs DO matter. The higher your car can rev, the more advantage you can take of gears.

RED MX5

Guys, what say we focus on a single difference that typifies the changes that have been made to the car over the years? Let's just take a critical (and hopefully objective) look at the change in the steering ratio.

Alan Johnson (author of "Driving in Competition") use to say that "slow hands win," and it's certainly true. The guy who turns the steering wheel the least will also be the guy who turns the fastest lap, almost without exception. Certainly then, a slower steering ratio should make a car easer to drive fast, becasue the driver can make larger and faster movements of the steering wheel, and the slow ratio will slow everything down. Slower steering makes smooth inputs easier because it somewhat negates (or diminishes) fast or sudden inputs.

So, do F1 and other purpose-built race cars have slow steering ratios or fast ratios? They have VERY quick steering, because it allows both the super smooth drivng good drivers are capable of, with minimum effort and lost motion, and also allows for a quicker correction when the unexpected happens. It makes a car harder to drive until the driver masters it, but the faster steering does NOT lead to faster steering inputs IF the driver has mastered the car.

This is why the S2000 is more fun to drive than a long bed king cab pickup truck, and it's also why some prefer the AP1 over the AP2. It is also one of the reasons some people like the AP2 more, because it does make the car more stable and easier to driver at the limit.

But ... don't hold your breath waiting for slow steering ratios on race cars, because it's not what works best for the top drivers.

The only way to improve one's skills is to present challenges. If the AP2 is enough of a challenge for some (as it darn well should be!!) then that just means that it's one hell of a cool car, but if someone wants more of a challenge then an AP1 offers a LITTLE MORE (not a lot, but a little). If you want a LOT MORE, get a Beck Spider or 908.

Pointblank

1/4 mile and striaght line performance, there isn't that much difference. The AP2 is more torquier though, so it helps out at a road course (track). The AP2 should be slightly faster than an AP1 at the track. The Ap2 has shorter gearing, wider stance (wheels and tires), I think different sway bars, and 06+ have traction control.