S2k-Takara

RED MX5

The vast majority of the people who have posted in this thread are obviously enjoying it. Instead of wishing their thread away, why not play nice and simply ignore it.

RED MX5

OK, I'll add one more person to the list of folks who have owned both and liked the AP1 better. As I'm sure you realize, most of the guys who've owned both like their AP2(s) more.

It's obvious (to me at least) what people like about the AP2, and I know why the AP1 appeals to me more, but what about you? What is it that the AP1 gives you that you miss in the AP2?

Saki GT

This question deserves it own thread, reserved for people with real experience in both cars.

RED MX5

The cars in the video are all JDM versions of the S2000. They have a slightly higher compression ratio and make a little more power. The apparent drop in power is due to a change in the way Honda rates horsepower.

Gello2024, as you might expect, the kind of people that prefer the AP1 also tend to be the kind of people who tend to be opposed to driver aids like ABS, VSA, CDV, etc. (vegatable soup ), but in general, on the street, I'll take all the help I can get. As long as it can be turned off for autocrossing and track days there simply are no downsides, except perhaps some additional complexity when the car is modified.

However, cars like the F40, GT3, and the like don't have such things because the cars are aimed at a market segment that doesn't want drive aids on their "toys." Not having any of these things is a part of what puts the original S2000 in the same class, and having them is a part of what changes the orientation of the later cars. The people who sincerely prefer the AP1 are the same people who would choose a GT3 over any of the more street oriented Porsche's. All S2000's are S2000's, just as all 911's are 911's, but they are not all the same, and do not all target the same market segment.

Frankly, I'm surprise that active safety systems aren't mandated by law, but because of the kind of cars I like, I'm glad they're not. It's not what everyone wants in every car they own.

nearwater4me

Looking at those videos, I don't think there's that much difference between AP1 and AP2.
The only thing I like about the AP2s are the newer bumpers/lights, interior, and wheels.
If we could've gotten the AP2 w/ F20 engines, I'd be all over it.

Dan

RED MX5

I was hoping this thread might go in that direction. It's pretty obvoius to everyone why most people prefer the AP2, but it would be very interesting to hear from all the guys who have owned both and come away preferring the AP1. I have a feeling that it's a very small group, so it wouldn't use up a ton of bandwidth even if we heard from them all.

To me, comparing the AP1 to the AP2 is like comparing the F40 to the F50. The F50 is quicker, faster, and more refined, but the F40 was the last "race car for the street" designed under the iron hand of Enzo Ferrari, and it shows up in the driving experience. Enzo didn't make concessions to drivers; His attitude was that if the car was right then the driver needed to adjust. If the car broke or went out of control it was never because the car was flawed, but because the driver had handled it badly. When you drive an F40 you have to drive it the way Enzo intended. When you drive an F50 you drive it the way Fiat intended, and it's just not the same thing. The original AP1 wants to be driven the way the Honda test drivers drove it during the final development and tuning sessions (on race tracks around the world). Later cars were changed based on customer feedback, and even if they are quicker, faster, and more confidence inspiring, they're not the same, because they don't make such strict demands on the driver. Early AP1's, F40's, GT3's, and all air-cooled 911's, are all cars that have to be driven in a specific way or they'll bite their owners, and that's what makes them so desirable to some people. They are not for everyone and were never intended to be. Neither is an F50, an AWD Porsche, or an AP2, but they're all "more civilized" or "more refined," which is just a nice way of saying that they are more forgiving. For most people that is a good thing, but it's not what everyone wants in a car that is basically a toy.

Saki GT

Does anyone know (from experience maybe) how big is the handling difference between the 00-01 ans 02-03 AP1s? That was the first suspension change, correct?

I think the keyword for AP2 is damped - the power and ability is still there, is just not as present as it is in an AP1 imo. When I drive a Porsche, things are even more damped, or so it seems.

TRDLiquidSilver

i never understood why anyone would want a car that's difficult to handle. some people describe it as being pure and raw but these are the same people upgrading the suspension wheels and tires of their AP1 to make it more neutral which is what the AP2 does to the S.

AP1 owners talk about a softer more gentler S in the AP2 but i think its still as razor sharp as the AP1 but your able to drive it harder at its limits with less chance to oversteer.

a perfect world for me would be AP2 body, wheels, supsension with a F20C, but i admit there are times i like having the extra torque.

__redruM

Here's what google turned up. 2006 > all other years
Glad it's what I bought...

2000 Honda S2000 5.5 14.2
2003 Honda S2000 6.3 14.9 (Manual)
2004 Honda S2000 5.8 14.2 (MT Mar '04)
2006 Honda S2000 5.5 14.0 (C&D May '06)

Source: http://www.albeedigital.com/supercoupe/art.../0-60times.html
Also aren't the numbers unfair anyway since one of the two get an extra shift...