negcamber

Ahhh...so you must agree that the Best Motoring vid means nothing then since it's only one instance where an AP2 beat an AP1.

But if you want some more data points:

Quickest S2ks at National Tours:

17 national level races in last 2yrs (Nat Tours + Nats): 11 AP1 wins; 6 AP2 wins

2005
El Paso, Walnut Ridge, Atwater, Devens had no AP2s running

San Diego
AP1 100.414
AP2 103.224

Houston
AP1 102.857
AP2 120.249

Atlanta
AP1 86.473
AP2 89.049

Toledo
AP1 73.755
AP2 76.052

Peru
AP1 104.547
AP2 107.684

Packwood
AP1 98.619
AP2 107.905

Denver
AP2 137.136 Woohoo...1st AP2 win over an AP1
AP1 140.360

2006
Ft Myers
AP1 97.769
AP2 98.870

San Diego
AP2 92.784
AP1 94.749

Walnut Ridge
AP2 90.462
AP1 90.912

Houston
AP1 90.901
AP2 92.923

Atwater
AP2 121.827
AP1 123.479

Peru
AP2 109.350
AP1 109.561

Denver
AP2 103.810
AP1 107.128

Packwood
AP1 96.146
AP2 100.743

Devens & Milwaukee did not have an AP2 completing the event

TRDLiquidSilver

[QUOTE=__redruM,May 4 2007, 12:54 PM]
You can't take two single autox races and and say anthing usefull about the difference between the AP1 and the AP2.

johnny

face it, AP2 drivers are all just 2nd class members here on s2ki

RED MX5

It was just a suggestion. I just though you might find your visits more enjoyable if you tried being nice to people. I know I do.

RED MX5

I'm generally more intested in the best times a car is capable of (because it gives me a target), and if anyone has kept any averages I'm not aware of it. Most guys seem to turn times in the mid to low 14's regardless of whether they're driving an AP1 or an AP2. The best times I've seen repeated were 13.9's, but that's relatively rare. Maybe you could review the data on DragTimes or somewhere else and calculate some averages, and you might find some small difference by doing so, but like so many others have said (and as I have said repeatedly) there is very little difference between the two cars in terms of quarter mile performance or autocross performance. If that's not the case then somebody can do the actual averages to prove it if they like; All I'm doing is pointing to times that are in some way comparable. The best times reported are comparable because they're the best times reported. Everyone who has been here for any length of time has seen that most people run mid to low 14's in the cars, so even though their times aren't directly comparable there does seem to be a trend.

Averages are indeed much more useful, but we don't have averages. If you have better data then post it and I'll use it next time this comes up.

H22_kHiT

AP2 is better everything,and is newer and improved, this thread should be killed already lol, JEALOUS=AP1

RED MX5

[QUOTE=TRDLiquidSilver,May 4 2007, 06:28 PM]
there are still too many variables in solo2 event even with their rules and regulations.


i posted the F20 vs F22 video but it shows the F20 with the AP2 suspension and wheel set-up. what i want is a true AP1/F20 vs AP2/F22 but we still have the driver variable, unless we put the good driver in the AP1. OOoh!

RED MX5

I'm sorry you feel that way. It seems to me that there are a number of AP1 and AP2 owners (including some who have owned both) here who are simply discussing their preferences. I don't see what you see at all, so please don't misunderstand my question ... but I have to ask ... Why does it bother you?

vishnus11

I've never been one to really get into these arguments, but we sure do have a crap load of fanbois on here who are putting down both cars. AP1 or AP2, their both essentially the same car.

There was a lot of talk about the steering ratio being slower in the AP2s contributing to a less than direct response and feel. In actuality, although the steering ratio was slowed, the bushings were revised to improve feel, and the wider front tires compensated for the slower steering ratio. So AP2s offer better feedback through the wheel than AP1s.

Instead of debating on whether AP2s have better "at-the-limit" performance than AP1s, why not just look at Honda's design objectives for the AP2:

Objectives for enhancing the 2004 S2000 chassis included simultaneously improving both at-the-limit track performance and the street performance during everyday driving conditions. Honda engineers re-visited the performance of the tires and suspension to improve overall handling of the S2000 and enhance "limit controllability." To accomplish this, the tire size was increased, body rigidity improved, rear suspension bump steer qualities minimized, and the rear roll center was lowered.

Improvements with regards to Performance and Handling in AP2's per Honda
- Dynamic acceleration potential increased
- Transmission shifter direct feel increased
- High-speed stability enhanced
- At-the-limit performance increased with more gradual fall-off
- Sensitivity to disturbances decreased (less bump steer)
- Steering feedback enhanced
- Brake pedal dynamic feel enhanced
- For 2004, new brake pad material improves the pedal feel and resists fading in high performance driving.
- The nose has slightly improved aerodynamics for 2004 that involves re-shaping the front bumper.
- Honda engineers designed a highly rigid monocoque body for the S2000 and strengthened it even more for 2004.
- Enhanced suspension bushings
- Revised Electrically Powered Steering (EPS) programming with optimized steering gearbox ratios and enhanced steering bushing rigidity
- Body rigidity increased
- Brake pedal rigidity and build-up feel increased
- Brake pads upgraded to enhance brake fade durability and master cylinder power ratio optimized
- Transmission efficiency and direct feel improved with carbon synchronizers

I'm no Uehera-san, but last time I checked, IMPROVED steering feel, gearbox feel, brake feel, and body rigidity was a good thing.

This is what Road and Track had to say about the AP2 in their comparison of "Best All-Around Sports Cars"

"

H22_kHiT

because i've been reading all this ap1 owner fronting about the 9k reving, and really it ain't all that,i been drove both car many many times,one of my friend had a 03 one has an 05, and the ap2 always pull on it no matter how many times or even different drivers,and just here to proved that 2.2L 83k it has collected all the power right there,no need to stress the engine out to 9k,overall ap2 is