This has been misproven by SCC I believe. If your ABS kicks in during hard braking, what good are the bigger brakes going to do?

Increasing unsprung weight and rotational mass will increase 0-60 AND 60-0 times/distance. The point of the BBKs (besides looks) is mostly to reduce brake fade. They don't necessarily make you stop faster, they let you stop without fade for longer periods of time.

The GT3 obviously weighs a sh1tload more than a Civic and needs bigger brakes to compensate. It's also targeted for more aggressive driving where brake fade can present itself.

 

As you stated, larger rotors are to improve cooling and reduce fade. Opposed-piston calipers provide better feedback and control. A GT3 was built for track use...that means it will be subjected to repeated hard stops. If New Concept really wanted to make an S2k equivalent in performance to a GT3, he would need the same level of fade resistance and control from his brakes, which a BBK would provide. Are there tradeoffs?...yes. But again, braking distance is not associated directly to the size of the brakes (more the tire and brake pad). Also keep in mind, S brakes were originally designed for the DC2R. Honda loves to reuse parts (it's a smart strategy to keep costs down), but I do think the S is underbraked. The DC2R weighed 200+lbs less than the S. Would the S benefit from larger brake setup?...yes, in certain areas such as reduced fade, improved feedback and control, and longer pad and rotor life. Are there tradeoffs?...yes, larger wheels are typically required (the thread starter already stated he wants 18" wheels, so no biggy here), possibly more unsprung weight, more rotational weight, but the affects of these will change per car (the S has tq issues that rotational weight and distribution of that weight from the center axis affects). Re: ABS, most drivers (even many Pros) brake better with ABS. A properly designed BBK will not kick on ABS any sooner than stock. I'm not saying BBKs are worth it for everyone, but there's a reason for their existance outside of bling. They do work for certain purposes. But there are many myths out there about them that ppl blindly believe. Again, BBKs will not affect braking distance in and of itself (being a BBK). Changing pad material because you went w/ a BBK, upping wheel size because of a BBK, changing to a different tire because of a BBK, etc...other factors (that relate most of all to the tire) affect braking distance.

 

You and Jasonw make very valid points.
Especially since you mentined that the s2k would have to match the gt3's brake pad/rotor lifetime (less brake fade) and control.
So the ap1 in this hypothetical matchup will be allowed to use BBK's.


Now the question I have is about overall reliability. Somebody mentioned earlier that the gt3 engine never breaks (I doubit it). I am sure the f20c is reliable as hell but the reliability is put into question once it is matched with FI , Stand alone EMS and a few other engine mods. Can anybody chime in on this issue?

Lastly, there seems to be some debate regarding handling and traction.
I do know that the Lotus Elise can give the gt3 a run for the money and if the ap1 has some modifications done to the suspension, it can match the Elise. Anybody have any opinions on this?

 

I'm not gonna touch this one

 

This is the only thing I really have to take issue with. It has been shown that BBKs do increase stopping distance.

 

ASM and Spoon s2ks are great examples that would giving beating to a GT3 on track and on a dragstrip.

But there are hundreds of race-built GT3s that would smoke them easily.

Are you competing with a friend? If a guy can afford a GT3, I'm sure he'll have money to make them go faster too.

BBK's are overrated. Once it gets to a certain point, only tire would matter. That's why a lot of supercars and sports cars don't bother with stuff like dual caliper or 6 puck etc. Just get good pads, rotors etc and you should be fine.

Getting a functional wing would be hard to do without making the car look ridiculous, a lot of the race-built s2ks have wings that look like picnic table on two trees.

You would need a hardtop to get the most out of your wings.

You could probably get dry-carbon hood, fender, bumpers, trunk, doors etc but they would cost a ton and won't give a huge reduction. You can paint them to look stock but that would add weight also. I'd probably try to get a rear diffuser also.

You can remove both stock seats and get a Recaro SPA, probably give you over 50 lbs in weight savings.

The pain from catless exhaust would probably cause more discomfort than a hard suspension.

Even if you make 380whp, it would be very peaky. Sure the stock GT3 'only' makes 380 to the crank, but since it has a RR layout, it doesn't lose much hp through the drivetrain and its 35/65 weight ratio would help put down the power better than the 49/51 s2k has.

The GT3 does low to mid 12s quarter-mile and is one of the best handling production cars around. As someone mentioned how reliable the GT3s are with heavy tracking, the built s2k would have reliability issues, and might no longer be legal (such as not having cat etc)

Good luck, and hope you have fun with your project.

Edit: Why do you even require 18" wheels anyways? GT3 is a bigger car with bigger brakes so the bigger wheel fits well, but imo 18" is an oversize for an s2k. You don't even want a BBK. Switching to 18" would add like 3lbs or so to each wheel if you compare the lighest ones you can get. I think the lightest you can get is Buddy Club P1 QF, you can get 17x8 + 17x9 and still be lighter than getting 17x7.5 + 17x9 for CE28N. Or you can give that company that sells carbon-fiber rims a shot.