jschmidt

I'm surprised we haven't seen more failures. Certainly driving at high speed is more common than the number of failures, don't you think?

Most manual transmissions just use splash lubrication, don't they?

cmnsnse

Yes most transmissions use the ol' sling action, but what Ive seen in those are catch trays that send oil to the bearings.

I guess for the total failure like I had, you would have to be doing what I was, driving for hours. But I would not say there is no damage out there as a result of this. Im thinking more along the lines of longevity, and those who drive easy probably will never have a problem.

Also the loads that become a problem are possibly above 100MPH but I cant say for sure, but with loosing oil pressure at 50MPH who's to say everything is fine inside there?

Another thing about this system is that once sitting for some time, there is very little oil where it needs to be. Im thinking alot of my failure might have come from overheating the needle bearing, then when I came to a stop, then started up, put a load on the bearing and contributed to its failure. The reverse gear spins faster than first in relation to the countershaft, but it wasnt as bad as first . . .

cmnsnse

About an hour and a couple bucks later I have my new oil pickup ready to install. I may get to that next weekend. I want try out my reverse syncro too.

Oh yeah, photo's here https://www.s2ki.com/forums/showthread.php?...6093#post596093

dlq04

cmnsnse, man your like a pit bull on a problem. Terriffic pictures and explanation. Good luck. I've entered your name for Honda employee of the month.

cmnsnse

[QUOTE]Originally posted by dlq04
[B]cmnsnse, man your like a pit bull on a problem.

Sondra S2K

OK, in layman's (girl) terms, should I be worried about driving my car long distance? I have to take my car on another 1000+ mile trip in 2 months, and you have me a little worried!

cmnsnse

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sondra S2K
[B]OK, in layman's (girl) terms, should I be worried about driving my car long distance?

00BLACKS2K

cmnsnse,

You've done a real nice job in diagnosing and documenting this problem, but I have to wonder if your problem wasn't just an isolated case? Driving for 4-5 hours at high speed and then stopping could have done the damage to your bearings and seals, not any design flaw in the transmission. I suspect that you may have lost a seal during or just after your high speed run and just flat ran the tranny dry, based on your description of events. Did you say that the front seal had failed and you had fluid in the bellhousing area?

Also, I do not belive the stock oil pump pickup is badly designed at all, and although your new and improved pickup is a nice piece, I believe it to be ill-conceived. WHY? You have guaranteed that your oil pump will now pick up any and all pieces of a broken gear or a severely worn synchro (or anything else that is deposited in the sump) and pump it around the transmission. Transmissions do generate a not-so-insignificant amount of debris in the normal course of driving (in direct relationship to how hard they are used!) and you really just want this to fall into the sump and stay there until a fluid change or an overhaul gets it out. The stock pickup is placed higher up in the sump precisely due to this fact, so as NOT to pick up debris.

Jim Mullen
Illusion Motorsports

cmnsnse

00BLACKS2K,

Thanks for another angle,

I had originally thought the front seal had leaked, and that was the initial cause. However at the time of the teardown the appropriate amount of fluid was removed. Also the fluid level was 'burned' into the gears. So only a minimal amount had leaked. I would not say this is an isolated case, because of Honda's awareness and efforts to recall foreign models.

High sustained speed driving is not commonplace in the USA so I can only think Honda believes this not to be an important issue. First of all the 'fix' is obviously in its first stages, not even tested yet. The intake can be rotated to be level yet still in the middle of the tranny instead of on the side. This will be changed as necessary during testing. Left as is, the lubrication system is NOT as Honda advertises: " The pump provides positive and reliable lubrication, regardless of G-loading. "

As you should know, within the 'system' of the transmission there is a magnet in effort to retain particles and a fine strainer in place just before the oil pump. You will notice in one photo I posted what looks like gold flakes, that actually is a severely worn syncro, the raised location of the pump did not avoid ingestion.

Again if this were not a problem, then why would Honda offer a modification.

jzr

I'd like to add to Jim's belief that this is an isolated incident. I've had 0 problems after having personally driven ~2300 miles in about 32 hours (San Diego-South Carolina) with the cruise set to 88 for most of the trip, and the car only getting a break for gas and a 1 hour nap. Made the trip back a few days later in about the same time, again no problems.

Yet to me this isn't half as hard as a day at the track, with all the heat and full-throttle upshifts. Not to mention any fluid starvation issues would quickly become apparent with race tires on steeply banked >1g turns. So far in those situations I've also had no problems, and neither has anyone else I've raced with.

You got a bum tranny - make 'em put in a new one for you! Unfortunately it seems with Honda one has to bark really loud and far up the chain of command to get heard.

It's been a long time since Honda has made a "normal" transmission (and differential) and I remember thinking that when they asked me if I wanted the extended warranty...

Best of luck getting things resolved!