2nd gear grind revisited
03-16-2004, 11:58 AM
#22
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I had the infamous grind, but in my case, it occurred mainly when the car was running hot from aggressive, high rpm driving. I had my tranny rebuilt under warranty by Tim at Scot Honda in Westechester, PA. The gearbox now functions the way it was supposed to, smooth shifts all the way.
03-16-2004, 12:03 PM
#23
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rick Hesel
I had the infamous grind, but in my case, it occurred mainly when the car was running hot from aggressive, high rpm driving.
I had the infamous grind, but in my case, it occurred mainly when the car was running hot from aggressive, high rpm driving.
03-16-2004, 01:34 PM
#24
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cyber_x,
I went through exactly what you're going through. I lost sixth gear about 9 months ago. Here are my thoughts and suggestions:
1) Since the warranty company won't be making a judgement about the validity of your claim you'll have to agree to bear the cost of the teardown of the tranny if they decide not to cover it. I hate this practice but understand it. What that means is pick your shop carefully. Hopefully you've got someone in mind already that you have a good relationship with.
2) I took my car to the dealer where I bought it. They had been cool with me in the past. They were much worse with my tranny issue. The extended warranty company never even looked at the damage - the dealer told them the tranny had been abused. You can see pics of my tranny and the cool letter the dealer gave me with all their supposed reasons for denying the claim here:
http://gallery.s2ki.com/imagecatalog/image/list/9130
3) Read your extended warranty contract carefully. Different contracts read differently. The dealer will tell you that your issue is with the extended warranty company and not them but that may not be the case. Mine had bold face writing on the first page of the contract that said something like "this contract is not a contract between you and (extended warranty company). It is a contract between you and the selling dealer. We only administer the contract."
4) I tried dealing with the extended warranty company to appeal the decision to deny my claim and was referred to their legal department. I decided to go directly after the dealer. I had to pay $4200 for them to repair the tranny. I then sued them for $5000 in small claims court and won.
If there's anything I can do to assist you please feel free to PM me.
I went through exactly what you're going through. I lost sixth gear about 9 months ago. Here are my thoughts and suggestions:
1) Since the warranty company won't be making a judgement about the validity of your claim you'll have to agree to bear the cost of the teardown of the tranny if they decide not to cover it. I hate this practice but understand it. What that means is pick your shop carefully. Hopefully you've got someone in mind already that you have a good relationship with.
2) I took my car to the dealer where I bought it. They had been cool with me in the past. They were much worse with my tranny issue. The extended warranty company never even looked at the damage - the dealer told them the tranny had been abused. You can see pics of my tranny and the cool letter the dealer gave me with all their supposed reasons for denying the claim here:
http://gallery.s2ki.com/imagecatalog/image/list/9130
3) Read your extended warranty contract carefully. Different contracts read differently. The dealer will tell you that your issue is with the extended warranty company and not them but that may not be the case. Mine had bold face writing on the first page of the contract that said something like "this contract is not a contract between you and (extended warranty company). It is a contract between you and the selling dealer. We only administer the contract."
4) I tried dealing with the extended warranty company to appeal the decision to deny my claim and was referred to their legal department. I decided to go directly after the dealer. I had to pay $4200 for them to repair the tranny. I then sued them for $5000 in small claims court and won.
If there's anything I can do to assist you please feel free to PM me.
03-16-2004, 01:52 PM
#25
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Strike,
Wow. Thank you for that very, very valuable information. I read the letter you mentioned, and what a load of crap. I'd better not get that. My car is bone stock, and the tranny and differential oil were both changed less than 5k miles ago, so I'd better not hear any BS about not changing my fluids. I also drive my car very gently, probably much more so than the typical S2000 owner, and I don't want to hear a damn thing about abuse.
When I spoke with the extended warranty representative, he told me that if I am within 40 miles of the dealer who originally issued the warranty, then I would need to take my car there. However, I am about 60 miles or so away. So, the representative said I could take it to any "state licensed" shop, since it's a nationwide contract. He said that meant just about any shop except people "working out of their backyard".
So, I think I'm going to steer clear of the Honda dealer. There are several reputable independent shops in my area, so hopefully those will suffice.
I don't mind potentially bearing the cost of tearing down the tranny, as I don't have any other choice. I'm considering getting rid of the car altogether, but of course I'd still have to get the tranny fixed first. I do have one more question for now, though...
Given your experience and what you know now, in your personal opinion, do you think I would be better off taking my car to the dealer who originally issued the warranty? They're about 60 miles away, and I'm a little bit uncertain about driving all the way there with no 2nd gear (not to mention 1st gear is also having some minor difficulties), but I think I could do it if need be.
Thanks again for the great info. At this point, I have no reason to doubt the extended warranty so far, so I'm not ready to take up arms just yet. However, if any BS comes up, I will definitely be in touch with you. I greatly appreciate your offer of assistance.
Wow. Thank you for that very, very valuable information. I read the letter you mentioned, and what a load of crap. I'd better not get that. My car is bone stock, and the tranny and differential oil were both changed less than 5k miles ago, so I'd better not hear any BS about not changing my fluids. I also drive my car very gently, probably much more so than the typical S2000 owner, and I don't want to hear a damn thing about abuse.
When I spoke with the extended warranty representative, he told me that if I am within 40 miles of the dealer who originally issued the warranty, then I would need to take my car there. However, I am about 60 miles or so away. So, the representative said I could take it to any "state licensed" shop, since it's a nationwide contract. He said that meant just about any shop except people "working out of their backyard".
So, I think I'm going to steer clear of the Honda dealer. There are several reputable independent shops in my area, so hopefully those will suffice.
I don't mind potentially bearing the cost of tearing down the tranny, as I don't have any other choice. I'm considering getting rid of the car altogether, but of course I'd still have to get the tranny fixed first. I do have one more question for now, though...
Given your experience and what you know now, in your personal opinion, do you think I would be better off taking my car to the dealer who originally issued the warranty? They're about 60 miles away, and I'm a little bit uncertain about driving all the way there with no 2nd gear (not to mention 1st gear is also having some minor difficulties), but I think I could do it if need be.
Thanks again for the great info. At this point, I have no reason to doubt the extended warranty so far, so I'm not ready to take up arms just yet. However, if any BS comes up, I will definitely be in touch with you. I greatly appreciate your offer of assistance.
03-16-2004, 02:46 PM
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Here's my story.
I had the same symptoms you had with my transmition, except mine was also grinding sometimes when I shifted from 4th to 5th also. I had the 1 to 2 grind at all rpms, not just high rpm.
I took my car in to have it looked at in February. They confirmed that there were major problems and tore down the transmition. I ended up having 2nd, 4th, and 5th gears replaced and all coresponding synchros, and the master cylinder. It was covered under the Honda Care extended warranty. They concluded that the master cylinder was leaking and this caused the pressure plate to not fully engage and this in turn damaged the gears. Honda's cost, $1750, my cost, $50 deductable.
Now, 1.5 months later, my car is doing it again. My car would throw itself out of 1st gear so violently that it sounded and felt like someone hit my car. The whole car would shake. Then, after many times doing this, 1st gear finally wore down and I couldn't use 1st gear at all. Then reverse became difficult to engage. So I took my car in to the dealership yesterday to have it looked at again.
They called me today and told me that 1st and reverse now needs to be replaced including the syncros and the input shaft. 1st and reverse are on a different shaft than the other gears. This is going to cost Honda approximately $2000.
Well, during the call, the service guy told me that Honda is sending out a third party inspector to take photos of my car and inspect it since it was slightly modified. All I have on my car is the KG/MM race springs, and the Spugen Dual Ti exhaust. My service guy agreed that none of my modifications could have anything to do with my damaged transmition. He also said that the fact that my tires are pretty bald on the insides isn't going to help either. And I told him it was from me not having my camber corrected after lowering my car. And he understood that also. But it's out of his hands and since it involves so much money, they are having it inspected.
So now I'm sitting here worried to death that they are going to try to not cover my damaged transmition and I'm going to be stuck with a $2000 bill.
Now, my story. I am 26 years old, married, excellent credit, responsible full time job, and also go to school full time. I have never autocrossed my car because I simply don't have time to do anything else but go to school and work. My wife demands the rest of my time, so my car isn't abused from autocrossing. I simply don't abuse my car at all.
I just wanted to take a minute to thank Honda for adding just that much more stress to my already highly stressfull life. I have owned 5 Hondas in my lifetime. If Honda does not cover this, I guarantee that this is the last Honda I will ever own. And if anyone asks me to recomend a car to them, I will do my best to steer them away from Honda.
Honda's reliability is great, but their customer service and satisfaction is some of the worst I have ever witnessed. I am sick and tired of being treated like everything that goes wrong with this car is my fault. I am not some young punk kid that hot rods his car from every stoplight. And I don't think I should be treated that way either.
I had the same symptoms you had with my transmition, except mine was also grinding sometimes when I shifted from 4th to 5th also. I had the 1 to 2 grind at all rpms, not just high rpm.
I took my car in to have it looked at in February. They confirmed that there were major problems and tore down the transmition. I ended up having 2nd, 4th, and 5th gears replaced and all coresponding synchros, and the master cylinder. It was covered under the Honda Care extended warranty. They concluded that the master cylinder was leaking and this caused the pressure plate to not fully engage and this in turn damaged the gears. Honda's cost, $1750, my cost, $50 deductable.
Now, 1.5 months later, my car is doing it again. My car would throw itself out of 1st gear so violently that it sounded and felt like someone hit my car. The whole car would shake. Then, after many times doing this, 1st gear finally wore down and I couldn't use 1st gear at all. Then reverse became difficult to engage. So I took my car in to the dealership yesterday to have it looked at again.
They called me today and told me that 1st and reverse now needs to be replaced including the syncros and the input shaft. 1st and reverse are on a different shaft than the other gears. This is going to cost Honda approximately $2000.
Well, during the call, the service guy told me that Honda is sending out a third party inspector to take photos of my car and inspect it since it was slightly modified. All I have on my car is the KG/MM race springs, and the Spugen Dual Ti exhaust. My service guy agreed that none of my modifications could have anything to do with my damaged transmition. He also said that the fact that my tires are pretty bald on the insides isn't going to help either. And I told him it was from me not having my camber corrected after lowering my car. And he understood that also. But it's out of his hands and since it involves so much money, they are having it inspected.
So now I'm sitting here worried to death that they are going to try to not cover my damaged transmition and I'm going to be stuck with a $2000 bill.
Now, my story. I am 26 years old, married, excellent credit, responsible full time job, and also go to school full time. I have never autocrossed my car because I simply don't have time to do anything else but go to school and work. My wife demands the rest of my time, so my car isn't abused from autocrossing. I simply don't abuse my car at all.
I just wanted to take a minute to thank Honda for adding just that much more stress to my already highly stressfull life. I have owned 5 Hondas in my lifetime. If Honda does not cover this, I guarantee that this is the last Honda I will ever own. And if anyone asks me to recomend a car to them, I will do my best to steer them away from Honda.
Honda's reliability is great, but their customer service and satisfaction is some of the worst I have ever witnessed. I am sick and tired of being treated like everything that goes wrong with this car is my fault. I am not some young punk kid that hot rods his car from every stoplight. And I don't think I should be treated that way either.
03-16-2004, 03:04 PM
#29
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Big Ben,
I feel your pain. I also work full time and then go to evening school for another 4 hours. Part of the reason I'm so agitated with this is because this is finals week and I just don't have the mental energy or desire to deal with random stuff going wrong. My car is bone stock, so I don't have any issues with the "your car is modified" crap. However, I do wear baggy pants and have tattoos on my arms, so that doesn't really help prevent stereotypes.
I drive my car very gently - I've been told too gently on more than one occasion - and I'm going to be pissed if anyone tries to claim abuse.
Once my car is repaired, I think I'm most likely going to sell it or trade it in. It's truly a great car, and I've never had so much fun driving a vehicle in my life, but sometimes I can easily see sacrificing that fun for some extra peace of mind. My main fear is that the issue will come back again, in which case I'd be inches away from totally blowing a fuse.
You know what - my symptoms sound extremely similar to yours, just with different gears. The 2nd gear grind and subsequent 2nd gear lockout are my main problems, but there have been other little nagging things that I wonder about. For instance, my car has popped out of 4th gear a couple of times. And 1st gear has also become increasingly difficult to engage, as has Reverse. I wonder if these are indications that my tranny is headed down the same road as yours.
Please keep us posted on what happens with your tranny. I probably won't have time to take my car into the shop until after final exams are over, so it'll be a few days before I embark on my own adventure. For what it's worth, I sympathize with everything you've said, and wish you the best in your situation.
Btw, how many miles are on your car? Mine has 56k miles and is an early '02 model. Just curious when these issues are appearing for others.
I feel your pain. I also work full time and then go to evening school for another 4 hours. Part of the reason I'm so agitated with this is because this is finals week and I just don't have the mental energy or desire to deal with random stuff going wrong. My car is bone stock, so I don't have any issues with the "your car is modified" crap. However, I do wear baggy pants and have tattoos on my arms, so that doesn't really help prevent stereotypes.
I drive my car very gently - I've been told too gently on more than one occasion - and I'm going to be pissed if anyone tries to claim abuse.Once my car is repaired, I think I'm most likely going to sell it or trade it in. It's truly a great car, and I've never had so much fun driving a vehicle in my life, but sometimes I can easily see sacrificing that fun for some extra peace of mind. My main fear is that the issue will come back again, in which case I'd be inches away from totally blowing a fuse.
You know what - my symptoms sound extremely similar to yours, just with different gears. The 2nd gear grind and subsequent 2nd gear lockout are my main problems, but there have been other little nagging things that I wonder about. For instance, my car has popped out of 4th gear a couple of times. And 1st gear has also become increasingly difficult to engage, as has Reverse. I wonder if these are indications that my tranny is headed down the same road as yours.
Please keep us posted on what happens with your tranny. I probably won't have time to take my car into the shop until after final exams are over, so it'll be a few days before I embark on my own adventure. For what it's worth, I sympathize with everything you've said, and wish you the best in your situation.
Btw, how many miles are on your car? Mine has 56k miles and is an early '02 model. Just curious when these issues are appearing for others.